posted 09-21-2005 10:37 AM            

I purchased this set of tongs even though the bow was broken most of the way through.

I have been debating about having a repair done. Yes I do; no I do not. So, I am asking for opinions.

Keep in mind that the tongs will be display only and most likely never used again. From a practical and/or aesthetic point; is it better to have a repair done or leave as is. My only concern is that if I leave as is then what happens if the break totally separates the halves?

I have inquired as to cost and that is not a factor. The problem with repairing is that the solder may make it necessary to re-engrave the monogram.

HELP!

By the way these are 'coin silver'.

Thanks.

posted 09-21-2005 11:22 AM            

In my way of thinking, once a person starts repairing something the object begins to lose its historical voice. The area of a repair can no longer tell you what it looked like when it was made, or what technique the silversmith used at that spot, or what technique the engraver used on it. Repairs obliterate this history forever and in my mind it is this kind of history that gives antiques so much of their value and charm.

If you do not touch these and simply keep them in a secure case, perhaps with a molded holder or mounting to support the tongs so as to eliminate any little stress that may arise from laying them on their side I do not see how the crack would continue to grow.

posted 09-21-2005 12:07 PM            

Put them into you collection as: nice sugar tongs - with a little but common defekt. If you do not like them, watch out next time you see sugar tongs!

I feel with you...

Sazikov 2000

posted 09-21-2005 12:57 PM            

If you can lay hold of inert clear tape (of the sort used by conservationists) I might stick a piece across the bow, covering the crack, just to add a little strength.

They look really nice tho'!

posted 09-21-2005 01:10 PM            

The best way to repair the bow of a sugar tong is to sweat-solder a patch on the inside of the curve -- I've seen several done this way in the 19th century, and I'm pretty sure I have at least one. I suspect they flattened them out, fixed the patch, and then rebent and hardened them, since even if you matched the bend with the patch, as already noted they would have to be rehardened to get the tension back.

If this had been done 100 years ago I'd like it even better than an unrepaired piece -- this would be part of the use-history of the piece, reflecting how cherished they were. Even if it were done yesterday, if it were done well and by someone who used the piece regularly I would probably feel pretty much the same. But if the piece is removed from the universe of use to that of collected object, that all changes, for me at least.

Anthropologist Arjun Appadurai some years ago coined the term "social life of things" (the idea was far from new, and indeed the precise phrase had been used before, but he gave a book that title so now everyone attributes it to him). To me, taking an object into the realm of 'collected' rather than 'used' is such a dramatic change in its life that the rules change. Does the social life of the object end? Clearly not. But its purpose and meanings have changed with the new context, and the way it's treated should also change.

posted 09-21-2005 02:00 PM            

Even with the break I thought $48.00 was a very good buy. I have several pair of tongs repaired in the way you mention. I am one of those people who say "keep your cotton-picken fingers to yourself". In keeping with that I will most likely follow my own advice. Our job is to give tender, loving care and protection until such time as we leave the scene.

Thanks to all.

posted 09-21-2005 05:14 PM            

I think you should decide the following:

1. you want to collect intact tongs
   
2. you want to collect broken tongs
   
3. you want to collect repaired tongs

Sazikov 2000

posted 09-22-2005 04:39 PM            

1. Things cannot get worse - you will do no further damage.
   
2. New techniques in the next few years may well evolve that make repairs much less damaging
   
3. Heat nearly always affects the patination which is so much a part of the piece.

The comment on whether to collect perfect or imperfect tongs ignores the obvious choice for most people. Collect what you like - perfect or imperfect

I personally would agree with Mr Godderd (writing on the subject of porcelain.)

" I see collections of Worcester which are all perfect as that is the policy of the collector. I see collections which are a mixture of perfect items and damaged items, as the collector has limited means.

I can guarantee you that the latter has the more interesting collection".

posted 09-22-2005 06:28 PM            

The anecdote about ceramic collections that include imperfect examples being more interesting is certainly true. We are more or less collectors of china and as china is more easily broken than silver do find ourselves buying items with damage. With some exceptions most of the antique china we buy is for decoration or study and most of the antique silver is for the use it originally had.

posted 09-25-2005 04:33 AM            

Neat tongs, but not rare enough or early enough to care much about in wounded condition. I am with the "mend it with clear tape" crowd.
The tape should provide the reinforcement necessary to keep it from breaking during causual handling. Conservation works.

Also, I agree with the gentleman who asks, why collect "broken tongs"?

Respectfully,

posted 09-25-2005 08:58 AM            

1. I do not make 100,000 dollars a year
   
2. For 48.00 these are darn nice even though they are damaged.
   
3. After 200 years we will all be in much poorer condition.

They are most likely going to end up in a display case. I have decided not to have any repair work done. And besides this is supposed to be fun.

Thanks to all and if sounded like a tirade I do apologize.

posted 09-30-2005 09:00 AM            

I am sorry to come in now and agree/disagree, but here goes.

1. If the dent, crack, break, is small and will not grow to harm the piece, leave it, it is part of its history and fits with the age (a highly over polished perfectly dent free old silver object that was made that way i.e. repaired, is ugly and looses value)

2. If the repair will cause major color problems (firescale) don't do it unless it is better to loose the original color to save the damage from ruining the whole.

3. Do not repair a great old antique piece of silver if the person doing the repair can not do it properly!! I have seen the most incredible repairs on the most valuable antiques and it is a joy. The surface, color and everything else is right. That takes a smith with years of skill and knowledge.

Argentum, I think these need repair, because the tear will only get worse and if done now will be easier. Do not pot glue/epoxy on them because that is a pain to deal with when you will have to get them repaired properly. A good repair of these would do 1 of 2 things, 1. make them usable with a patch on the back (the patch is made to shape, the tongs can not be flattened first and the patch would give enough strength do compensate for the loss of work hardening), or 2. just solder the tear to stop further ruin. This done well will not fill the engraving and should be hard to spot to the casual look. Yes the color could change (or not done right), yes they will have lost hardness, but they will be whole and you were not going to use them anyway. Also they are not hugely valuable and this will make them worth at least twice what you paid!

Lastly, Yes laser welding may be the way to go and is something I plan to find out about this year. When I get some info I will post it.

I do not want to sound as though I disagree with the huge expertise of all of the above but as a maker this seems simple to me and I hope that I have been clear to be helpful to non makers?

posted 09-30-2005 08:29 PM            

I would not straighten them first because of a few reasons. The engraving and surface would suffer. The tear would be hard to align and it is unnecessary anyway.

When I first saw the tongs I was rushing and assumed they were made with a compound curve, not such a flat one. If it had been so, even more reason not to flaten them first. Since they are a flat curve you could do that but as I said it would jeopardize the above.

A good antique repair should disturbe the article as little as possible. This is why bad repairs are worse than none and, I supect, why most of the experienced folks above say leave it alone!

One last personal opinion, I love a well done honest repair on old silver. I hope the above is helpful and thanks for the very kind compliment!