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General Silver Forum new method of monogram removal?
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Author | Topic: new method of monogram removal? |
vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 03-08-2007 07:42 AM
While browsing some site or other one of the sellers mentioned that monograms could be removed by fluxing silver into the old mono then buffing it out. Is this plausible? I would think 'huffing' on it will still show the old mono. IP: Logged |
FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 03-08-2007 10:15 AM
When you say fluxing do you mean soldering? Soldering would leave a shadow. I suspect the monogram could be filled in with a laser weld and then refinished. I am not a believer in monogram removal so I do not see the point of spending the money to do so. Fred IP: Logged |
agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-08-2007 11:02 AM
I think Fred is right, there would be a shadow. It could be silver plated but that is temporary and more importantly once soldering has been done the hardness, especially in flatware would be gone. I also do not like mono removal mostly because it is done badly or at the long term expence of the object, too thin etc. There are times where it is OK and a laser weld would be ideal. Thank you Fred, as I had not thought to do it, but have repaired spoons and other objects that could not be soldered (a mixed metal hammered sugar bowl with fire scale where the aplied decoration had come off). It would be expensive because on the scale of mono removal it would take a fair bit of time. On a great object that would come back to life without a mono or without thin spots and holes it would be ideal. IP: Logged |
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 03-08-2007 01:19 PM
I'd like to put the case for the defence of the monogram. If the silver has any historic or artistic merit, the monogram, original or later is part of it's history. If it was there by order of the original owner, to my mind it ADDS to the value. Removal, which ruins patination , and any historic value is, IMHO, desecration. If the silver has no historic or artistic merit, and only has value for useage, the perhaps there is some excuse for removal. But how do we know what in the future will be regarded as merit !. My father spent many years making furniture out of old, worthless timber. From 18th century longcase clocks - the movements discarded - from Edwardian tables- valueless in the 1950's - etc. His father broke up unfashionable genuine Sheraton furniture. The Victorians scrapped Chippendale chairs .I have scrapped Victorian silver regarded as of very little merit forty years ago. (Much of it still junk in my rather arrogant view !) IP: Logged |
vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 03-08-2007 02:36 PM
I think the claim was you could then put in a new mono without losing any silver. I wouldn't do it in any case since I have no problems with monograms. I don't recall if it was silver solder or how they did it, only that the old mono could be filled with silver somehow and re-mono'd. IP: Logged |
argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-08-2007 08:04 PM
Any addition of silver to the object would have to be done with a silver alloy of a lower melting point than the object. This would leave an area different in color. As was said before this would also leave the metal softer. IP: Logged |
FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 03-09-2007 09:14 AM
quote: Not with laser-welding, as mentioned above. That in theory matches the original metal (although I don't know that they have silver of alloys other than sterling), using a laser to melt the new metal and fuse it into the old. I suspect there would still be a subtle shadow if used for monogram removal, but if that were then engraved over it might be very hard to see. I have a couple of pieces I've been meaning to take in for laser repair as test cases, but haven't had a chance to do so yet. Will report here when I can.... IP: Logged |
argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-09-2007 09:39 AM
This is a pair of sugar tongs that I had laser wielded this past year. There is a post about these someplace. IP: Logged |
agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-09-2007 10:25 AM
Argentum, Your tongs were the reason I started laser welding! They were repaired by a very nice jeweler near Albany,NY (you gave me his name) who kindly gave me a demo. He also explained that the tongs were too big to only weld, so what you see in your image is solder that he finished the job with after using the welder to tack the two pieces together. The welder is great for lining up two pieces accurately because you can hold them in your hands and make the first weld, which is tiny and if it is right keep going and if wrong break it and try again. It was then touched up with a graver (very well). So this is not what a laser weld looks like. I will try to post some images of spoons that have been done with a laser. There is not a color difference and if done well, i.e. no pits and polished to blend in with the surrounding area. A laser weld is hard to see because the filler metal is the same as the body. When welding a coin spoon I will cut a fine wire with snips off of an old broken coin spoon to use as the welding rod. Like wise sterling for sterling. IP: Logged |
Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 03-10-2007 01:09 AM
The way I have seen this done is to make a wax negative of the monogram. Then cast the monogram in silver. It is then inserted into the existing script. Heat is involved. The result is then buffed over. Does this explanation make any sense? IP: Logged |
agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-10-2007 07:57 AM
That is a new one for me. It is hard to picture at the size of engraving, meaning to cast something that thin, then with shinkage fit and solder it into the lines of the engraving (let alone issues of a curved or flat surface), then file and polish to the surface level and end up with a smaller, but apparent, shadow of solder... It sounds like a lot of work for an ify result. Dale I may not have the right idea and you might be thinking of when a smith cuts out the mono and lets in apiece of sheet silver that is gently hammered to strech it into the hole for a good fit and then solders it. This is the usual way of fixing a mono removal on holloware that has gotten too thin. IP: Logged |
vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 04-22-2007 03:53 PM
I found the original quote quite by accident so I thought I'd post it:
Inscriptions can be removed if required . This is achieved by floating silver into the inscription and then polishing the whole to a very high standard. There will be no sign of the previous inscription and the silver will be as thick as when new. The trophy can then be inscribed to suit your own requirements or left blank. " IP: Logged |
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