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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Silver before sterling
 Bailey & Co. Mark ID Help
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| Author | Topic: Bailey & Co. Mark ID Help |
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ebarsk Posts: 4 |
posted 09-06-2004 06:33 PM
  
I am new to the forum, but I am a collector of all types of silver. I recently purchased a Bailey and Company cream jug which has the typical Bailey & Co. mark along with and "eagle" and the letter "P". I have checked the normal references and cannot find the "eagle and P" mark documented. Is this a silver plate mark? I hope not, but would love to know. Thanks in advance for any information.
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 09-06-2004 10:12 PM
In all probability it is coin silver and the mark is that of (or that assigned to) the silversmith who produced the silver for Bailey to retail. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 09-06-2004).] IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 09-06-2004 10:33 PM
Hmmmm. Bailey did make a line of silverplate goods early on. I don't know that they used any specific marking for such, though they were fairly religious in their use of the marks for coin and sterling standard wares. Have you checked closly the points of wear -- the foot pads, the tear at the handle, the high points of the reposse? IP: Logged |
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ebarsk Posts: 4 |
posted 09-06-2004 11:44 PM
I can see no bleeding through of any base metal on any surface when looped. The tear you refer to is not a tear, it is actually the area where the handle is attached and because of the angle of the photo it appears to be a tear. I suppose, I could test, but would rather not scratch the surface to do so. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 09-07-2004 12:03 PM
The rounded edges around the punch marks on your object could indicate that the metal is softer than that usually used as the base metal for electroplating, which normally is harder than silver. Because of the hardness of the base metal, punch marks on electroplate are more sharply cut, and are usually incised, rather than in cameo, as is the full name mark here. Never cut into silver to test it; there are less destructive ways than acid testing to determine whether an object is plated or solid silver. Without actually handling the piece, one cannot say definitively, but I would be surprised if this turned out to be plated. IP: Logged |
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ebarsk Posts: 4 |
posted 09-07-2004 12:47 PM
Thank you for response. What you say makes sense. The lip of the spout is fairly thin unlike silverplate and is slightly bent in one spot. The body is thicker and the repousse and chasing is very nice. It is not overly heavy like plate would be.Did you notice the bird (peafowl like) on one side and the basket of fruit on the other? The feet are cast. Do you know of any maker who used the the "Eagle P"? IP: Logged |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 09-07-2004 04:13 PM
Ensko IV shows numerous marks for Bailey & Co. on p.240, including both incuse and incised "BAILEY & CO.", the former with incuse lion passant and "S", the latter with incuse eagle facing right and two other incuse marks (shields?). Another variant shows the incised name with the incised street address. Your piece shows an incuse maker's mark that differs from Ensko by the line under the "o" in "Co". Also your piece show an unidentified incised eagle facing left, and incised "P". Of course, Bailey & Co. was a Philadelphia company, which might explain the "P". I'm guessing the Eagle was just an alternate version of that shown in Ensko. Coin silver pieces co-produced with Taylor and Lawrie until 1852 were marked with incuse Eagle (facing right) and Shields. But Rainwater on p.34 identifies incuse "Eagle (facing left), U, Shield" as marks for in-house produced coin silver items to denote quality (.900 fine). Overall, I'd guess that your piece is coin silver by Bailey & Co., and the marks are due to the possibility that, as new punches were needed, the supervisors weren't very picky about keeping the new ones absolutely consistent with the old. JMO. NC [This message has been edited by nihontochicken (edited 09-07-2004).] IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 09-07-2004 07:08 PM
quote: Unless there is a long tail that is obscured by the reflections, the bird is probably a stylized Federal Eagle, a patriotic symbol frequently used on Philadelphia silver, as it was the first Capital of the new Republic. Eagles, doves, shells, and baskets of fruit/flowers are decorative symbols that were widely used on silver, especially on handles and backs of spoon bowls in the first half of the 19th Century. You have a nice piece there. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 09-07-2004).] IP: Logged |
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ebarsk Posts: 4 |
posted 09-07-2004 08:04 PM
Thank you so much everyone for all of the information you have provided. I am going to go through all of my books on coin to see if I can find the "eagle P" any where. I will let you know if I do. I also had an email from an indiviudal who indicated she has a Bailey piece with similar marks and also the word "coin". This is a diffinative piece of information. Thanks again. IP: Logged |
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Robert P. Thomson Posts: 1 |
posted 12-31-2004 02:50 PM
I have dessert spoons marked, reading from left to right, a six pointed star, BAILEY & Co S enclosed in a diamond S enclosed in a diamond. The star and firm name are made with cameo punches, the S marks made with intaglio punch. Can anyone identify this mark? Are they silver plate or coin silver? I can't tell. Any help appreciated. IP: Logged |
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