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H. SAFFORD ( Ohio Silversmith )

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Author	Topic: H. SAFFORD ( Ohio Silversmith )
florida_bob Posts: 54 Registered: Dec 2004	posted 02-05-2005 01:18 PM Request for Help: I am trying to determine the issue date (or date range) of a countermarked coin by comparing the "die state" of the countermark with the same mark that is found on two different pieces of coin silverware. The coin was countermarked by Henry (Harry) Safford, who worked in various locations in the state of Ohio. I have acquired a book that covers the Safford family geneaology in great detail (Ohio Valley Saffords). The coin is an 1805 U.S. Half Cent (yet another Half Cent countermarked by a silversmith !). The two pieces of Safford coin silver that I have acquired are as follows: 1) Fluted Salt Spoon, 3 1/2 inches in length, bowl is over 1 inch wide. The seller stated that this piece "would not date much later than 1820". 2) Tablespoon, 8 1/2 inches in length. The seller stated that this piece was "circa 1810". The maker mark on the salt spoon is missing the final letter ("D"), just like the countermark. The maker mark on the tablespoon is complete. This almost guarantees that the tablespoon dates from an earlier period than the salt spoon, and that the countermark was issued during (or near) the time that the salt spoon was made. Question - Are the two dates given by the sellers accurate for these pieces? If not, can anyone on this forum provide more accurate date ranges? Thank you for your help! I will give credit for any help (if desired) when I publish the article on this countermark. Bob M. IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 02-05-2005 08:11 PM Maybe not far off, but most sellers tend to be optimistic in their dating. For this geographic region, which tended to lag the East a bit in the earlier days, I would give the salt spoon another 10 - 15 years on the upper end, and the tablespoon maybe the same or a bit less, which still leaves the tablespoon the earlier. It is impossible to give exact dates, as styles did not change overnight, and often overlapped. Upper ends of ranges are often more blurred than lower ends, since phase-outs were gradual; if a new style caught on quickly, its appearance would seem sudden; if it took hold only gradually, it would be harder to pin down. Also, the use of an owner's full name in place of initials, if original, generally is a later practice, and moves a spoon to the upper end of its range. Sometimes full names have been added later, so caution is called for here. Undoubtably there have been exceptions, but not frequently. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 02-05-2005).] IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 02-06-2005 10:49 AM I have an unpublished list of Ohio silversmiths, etc. compiled from notes left by my aunt Elizabeth Beckman after her death. She had Harry Safford as working in Zanesville c. 1816 with a note that he probably came from Gallipolis, worked in Marrietta c. 1810 and later a merchant of Springfield. If I understood correctly what you said about the mark being more complete on the tablespoon and therefore earlier, I don't necessarily agree. The mark on the coin and salt spoon could simply be stamped more firmly on the left than on the right side. In other words, the die could be complete and identical for all three marks and the difference be a result of the way it was struck. I have handled as much Ohio silver as anyone. And since dating flatware is a bit of an art, I just looked at them and said to myself: The salt spoon is c. 1830 and while it could be a little later, it couldn't be much earlier. The tablespoon, although I couldn't see it as well, is probably C.1822 It could be up to 8 years later, but it couldn't be more than a few years earlier. A shorter way of saying that is probably to agree with Stuart. IP: Logged
florida_bob Posts: 54 Registered: Dec 2004	posted 02-06-2005 12:08 PM Thanks for the help! These revised date ranges sound more likely than the dates listed by the sellers. The mark is stamped evenly on the coin, and just about evenly on the salt spoon, so the last letter in the punch has a die break. I have seen this many times before with other marks, and I know to look for an uneven strike. Is your unpublished list of Ohio silversmiths ever going to be published? I would sure like to see it. Bob M. IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 02-06-2005 08:21 PM I was planning on putting out my aunt's book on disc, and adding the list. Either I will do it when I retire, or when I get really bored sometime. IP: Logged
bascall Posts: 1629 Registered: Nov 99	posted 05-26-2008 02:32 AM Old post. The Harry that Labarbedor is referring to is actually the Henry in the American Silversmith's Family Tree project. IP: Logged

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