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tline3open  Travelling silversmith, well-travelled spoon

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Author Topic:   Travelling silversmith, well-travelled spoon
swarter
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iconnumber posted 03-27-2005 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-2279 19-0545]

A Well Traveled Silversmith, A Well Traveled Spoon

Here is the maker's mark on a Hanoverian tablespoon with a small, raised drop on the back of the bowl, as it first appeared; the maker's mark is accompanied by a French mark denoting imported silver. Its prior English owner thought it to be a Provincial spoon, c.1740.

Can you identify the maker and the country of origin? If someone (other than wev) can identify him, or after a suitable interval, if no one does, I will post the identification, along with "cleaned up" and retouched photos, and some information about the maker. We will then move the thread to the appropriate forum.

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 03-28-2005 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hint No.1: the punch is unevenly struck, deeper on the left, and incomplete on the right.

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 03-29-2005 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hint No.2:

The mark is composed of two conjoined letters beneath a crown.

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FredZ

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iconnumber posted 03-29-2005 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thauvet Besley....! Very impressive.... I had never heard of him until I did my search.

Do we get to see an image of the entire spoon?

Fred

[This message has been edited by FredZ (edited 03-30-2005).]

[This message has been edited by FredZ (edited 03-30-2005).]

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 03-30-2005 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good, Fred. You are correct! Here is the promised followup:
-----------------------
Marks with conjoined letters occur frequently in early silver, particularly on the Continent. The practice was continued in New York by immigrant silversmiths and others, especially in the Dutch community The use of the crown is also frequent in early English and continental marks.

This mark is that of Thauvet Besly (Beslij), c.1691 - 1757. An account of his lineage and activities can be found in Elegant Plate by Deborah Dependahl Waters.

Born in New York of Huguenot parents who emigrated to New York from France by way of London and Charleston, South Carolina, young Thauvet was sent to London sometime before 1711, where he is presumed to have learned the silversmith's trade. He was admitted to the Silversmith's Guild in Amsterdam in 1715, and married in 1719, becoming a member of the Walloon Church. He and his wife returned to New York in 1728, where they transferred their membership to the Reformed Dutch Church of New York. Presumably he worked in the community of Dutch silversmiths in New York City until his death in 1757.

While in Amsterdam, he registered two marks; one of these, conjoined letters TB beneath a crown, he is supposed to have continued to use in New York. However, two such marks apparently exist -- both being shown in references -- one with serifs on the crossbar of the T and a pronounced "toe" on the foot of the T; the other apparently lacks both these features. The first appears on this spoon and on the two porringers shown in Elegant Plate; the second on the two tea caddies in the same book.* All three strikes of the first punch appear to have been struck obliquely, digging in deeply along the left side, thus making the vertical bar of the conjoined letters appear incorrectly as wide and tapering. In the photographs below the marks are shown as they appear after a light cleaning (left) and following retouching on the computer (right).

Silver made in Amsterdam during the Napoleonic annexation of the Netherlands bears French hallmarks, but this spoon is too early for that period, and the import mark is too late. The French import mark on the spoon is an insect, probably an ant or a beetle, that has been in use since 1835, but not in a rectangular punch at first. If I interpret the entry in Tardy correctly, the rectangular punch was introduced in 1893 for silver imported from certain named countries, not including the United States, and for silver imported from all countries since 1971. How the spoon got to France, and then to England, is unknown, but it is later in form than any that would have been made before Besly returned to New York, and so is unlikely to have been made by him while still in Amsterdam.

Its appearance across the Atlantic may be indicative of Besly's ties with the Old World, or it may have been brought in by a collector or dealer. As there is no provenance, we shall never know.

* See wev's newly revised page for the second mark.


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FredZ

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iconnumber posted 03-30-2005 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A great spoon and I supose you will be sending it to me shortly.... since I got the right answer....

Anxiously awaiting by the mailbox,
Fred

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 03-30-2005 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid all you get is public pat on the back, and the satisfaction of knowing you figured it out. The combination of the French mark and the Old World nature of the maker's mark make it one of the tougher ones to figure out - it would be understandable to not think of it as possibly American, although I believe he does appear in some Dutch sources, too, and also could be found that way by someone with the right literature.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 03-30-2005).]

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FredZ

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iconnumber posted 03-30-2005 07:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Swarter,

Thanks for the challenge and the fun.... Having an extensive library is certainly a help on these things.

Fred

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 03-31-2005 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No one has commented on this spoon, but someone must have noticed that the bowl is quite large - in fact unusually so. A sampling of New York Dutch made spoons also shows bowls larger than usual, but none as large as the Besly example.

These spoona are, from left to right, by Adrian Bancker, Thauvet Besly, Jacob Jacobse Lansing, and John Brevoort. These spoons may be compared with the series of similar Hanoverian tablespoons illustrated by Belden (pp. 480-481), all of which but one have smaller bowls and are from outside of New York. The one in her series with the largest bowl is by Peter Van Dyke, also a member of the New York Dutch community. These proportions are to be found among early English spoons, as well. Over a dozen other American Hanoverian tablespoons that I have examined in hand, plus a number of others in published photographs do not show these proportions. These four (plus the Van Dyke) New York spoons have full ridgebacks (long ridges on the handles), and are about 8" or less in length (typical of early Hanoverians); later spoons trend to proportionally smaller bowls, shorter ridges, and lengths up to 9" or so.

Obviously this is much too small a sample on which to base any conclusions about styles peculiar to the Dutch silversmithing community, but I think it an interesting observation, and I would be interested to hear of other examples that do or do not fit this pattern, or any statements in the literature that may bear on the question.

Additional discussion and illustrations of the Bancker and Lansing spoons can be seen in the earlier Bancker thread (c. 1735 Adrian Bancker coin silver spoon).

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 04-20-2005 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With his permission, I have added Ulysses Dietz' images of the Newark Museum's Bancker (shell drop) and Nys (rattail) to the above series for purposes of comparison - the bowls similarly are proportionally large. Bancker was a member of the New York community of Dutch silvesmiths. Nys, similar to Besly, was a Huguenot who seems to have worked in that community while in New York; after relocating to Pennsylvania, where he was one of Philadelphia's earliest silversmiths; he later may have become a Mennonite.

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