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 American Silver before sterling
 Hall & Elton, coin and nickel silver
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| Author | Topic: Hall & Elton, coin and nickel silver |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-20-2005 04:54 PM
  
A posting in the New Members forum reminded me of a favorite mislabeling I see all the time here in the Central New York area. Hall and Elton was a very prolific firm in Geneva, NY, producing large numbers of fiddle pattern spoons. You'll see them at just about every show in this region. Almost without exception, it's all plain, never-plated, nickel silver (or German silver if you prefer, or alpacca, although technically that's a specific brand). It always has that yellowy NS color, but otherwise looks just like a coin spoon, and almost everyone in the area seems to assume they're coin (especially since they're conveniently listed in Kovel's and other guides). I have to say "almost without exception", though, as I have seen *1* actual coin silver spoon with their mark -- in 12 years in this area, and having handled probably over 1000 pieces. Unfortunately the dealer wanted something like $30 for this teaspoon and I just couldn't justify it.... I know there are other firms that were platers whose products today are often passed as coin, but are there other firms like Hall & Elton that produced unplated nickel silver pieces as an economy substitute for coin? IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-20-2005 05:04 PM
I have also seen a piece or two of Hall & Elton coin. They did make it, but not apparently in quantity. The various Rogers firms look to have made flatware in nickle steel. Which was sold as either plated or not plated. I suspect the way to answer your question is to look for early platers who started out as silversmiths. Which I think most of them did, apart from Reed & Barton who were pewterers. This is a very good question, and I really don't know how to answer it. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 09-20-2005 05:29 PM
I have a coin tablespoon by the firm, as well as several examples of their Britannia and plated wares. All are of descent substance. I imagine, at age 55, Abraham Bashara Hall was quite willing to set aside the hammer after nearly 35 years and embrace mass production, supplying a growing middle class market who desired good quality merchandise at a low price. And speaking of confusion, there is another Hall & Elton partnership that did, I believe, stick strictly to German silver and Britannia goods -- Deacon Abner Hall and William Elton, working c 1847-1865 in Wallingford CT. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 09-20-2005 05:45 PM
quote: Did you mean produced exclusively or as one of a number of non-coin product lines? IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 09-20-2005 06:43 PM
There were quite a few companies producing similar products (i.e. unplated nickel silver). We have discussed the large number of trade names for this type of item in previous threads. Things like Brazil Silver, Alaska Silver, Pure Silver, etc. I'm not sure who was actually making most of these items, but there must have been several companies. If you have a 19th C Sears, Roebuck catalog, you can see them as they were advertised ("Solid Silver Metal, Guaranteed Never to Wear Through, etc.) Brent IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-20-2005 07:20 PM
I suspect that Redfield & Rice is another one that should be added to the list. Are you asking about spoons that look to have all come from the same die stamp; just the metal varies a lot? This is confusing as the coin, silverplate and nickel ones all are the same size, have the same marks and generally feel alike. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-21-2005 05:21 PM
Re wev's query, could be either exclusive or non-exclusive. Haven't had a chance to look up any info on the 'other' Hall & Elton; I wonder if they can be differentiated. As Dale suggests, for me it's the confusion of these pieces with coin that is interesting, and thus I've looked more at the ones that really look like coin pieces -- may not be the exact same dies, but I suspect in at least some cases they were. Brent's point is well taken, but few of those other "silver"s (my favorite name has long been "Potosi Silver," which hearkens back to the pre-Columbian mines) really look like coin pieces, in my experience. Most seem to be later 19th century or even 20th, and much heavier, often with a rounded shaft to the handle. Re Dale's earlier point about platers, here in Ithaca the early platers seem to have come from the harness trade rather than silver. But one can seldom tell all of the places those people worked from the surviving records, so they may have had background in a silver/jeweler's shop as well. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 09-21-2005 07:37 PM
The first firm that comes to mind is perhaps the earliest producing plated flatware here -- Cowles Manufacturing of East Granby CT. The Reverend Whitfield Cowles began experiments in silverplating around 1836. At his death in 1840, his work was continued by his son, William Brown Cowles. Using the results of these experiments, he formed Cowles Manufacturing Company in 1845 with Asa Rogers, James Isaacson, and John Johnson. The firm only lasted a year or two. I have a cream ladle marked by the firm and if I did not know they only did silverplating over German silver, I would swear it was coin. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-22-2005 09:59 AM
And I just looked up Hall, Elton & Co -- the 'other' Hall & Elton' -- in Rainwater. The mark shown there is easily distinguished from the Geneva firm, but it looks later and I wonder if they used a more 'coin'-looking mark earlier on. Being only 40 miles from Geneva I'm comfortable assuming that what I see around here is from there, but if they turned up somewhere else??? IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-22-2005 12:14 PM
Once upon a time, I bought a set of 12 Olive pattern pastry forks. It was, AIR, in Kansas City. All 12 were identical. All had a mark that turned out to be one of the later Western New York makers, can't remember who. My first thought was that these were coin, and just mixed in with the silverplate I was buying. Once I polished them, I discovered that 6 had tiny heel wear, and 6 did not. So, I did something I almost never do; I had them tested. Sure enough, 6 were coin and 6 were plate. Identical patterns, monograms, size, heft and maker's mark. And in Olive which is frequently a die stamped pattern. Silverplated Hall & Elton can be found all over the place. They seem to have had a widespread market. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 09-22-2005 12:51 PM
quote: How odd. Where have you found these? I don't doubt your ability to detect the difference, but I have handled dozens of Hall & Elton pieces, many being passed off as coin, and only once have I ever found one in coin - for a long time I didn't think they even existed. Whoever made them, I don't think many have made their way to California. Invariably the ones I have handled were uniformly light, hard, thin and springy. They lacked the "give" of coin silver, and, although I never forced one far enough to accept a bend, they left the impression they would break first. Depressing the end of the handle with a fingernail and letting it spring back by itself was enough to know it wasn't coin. In the early days of ebay, before I realized the futility of trying to be helpful, I would advise sellers with these "coin" spoons (they were comon then as now), to try the "fingetrnail test," and the only ones who ever replied found they did not have coin - maybe some of the others did, but none ever said so. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 09-22-2005).] IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 09-22-2005 02:11 PM
I have seen Hall and Elton flatware, but never in coin. I wonder if they ever made anything other than flatware and within the category of flatware did they make any pattern other than a plain fiddle. I suspect that there many variations of compositions used to try to imitate the silver look, but the public must have said no after a while as electroplating seems to have filled that segment of the market. Companies did similar work in the field of gold as my wife collected for a short time jewelry made from pinchbeck. This was a metal invented by Christopher Pinchbeck and it really does look like gold. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 09-22-2005 09:21 PM
By some sort of miracle celebrating the first day of Fall, my Cowles ladle was right on the top of the heap. Here are some pictures (and I apologized for the quality -- been a long day): The handle as a regular taper in thickness, just as would be expected in a forged piece. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-23-2005 10:07 AM
Very nice! Perhaps the MFG in the mark should raise a flag? I can't think of a coin firm that used that, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some. That looks like a piece that could easily fool someone -- and must've been quite a good product at the time. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-23-2005 05:55 PM
Trying my first photo post here, also an experiment with a new camera. I ran across this Hall and Elton sugar shovel in a shop this afternoon, couldn't resist adding the example. This one is (badly worn) silverplate over nickel silver, and unusual in being a threaded fiddle pattern -- H&E typically is a simple, lightweight, downturned fiddle. Length is 6.2 inches, and the mark although badly worn is the usual (for the Geneva, NY firm) HALL& ELTON IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 09-23-2005 08:18 PM
I have only seen one other piece by H & E, a tablespoon, in the thread pattern -- perhaps the need for additional hand finishing made it pricier than the market would bear. Here is another one that would fool at first glance. I have a pair of these tablespoons (can't remember where I even got them); this one is pristine, but the other has enough heal wear to reveal the copper core. I have supposed this to be one of the myriad of marks used by Rogers Brothers, but have never taken the time to verify it. As with the Cowles piece, I think this piece would easily pass first muster as a coin spoon. IP: Logged |
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