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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Silverplate Forum
 "METAL ALLIAGE BLANC" ???
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| Author | Topic: "METAL ALLIAGE BLANC" ??? |
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john.cheetham unregistered |
posted 01-23-2003 10:29 PM
 
Well here goes, I have a soup spoon and three forks that are very perplexing. when I found them they were tarnished. They cleaned and polished like silver. I tested the back of one with a nitric acid muriatic acid mix (a 14kt gold test solution) and compared this reaction to a sterling spoon I had (it was already damaged)the reactions were identical i.e., a tan color to gray. The reaction site buffed out on both the known and the unknown. The forks and spoon have 2 marks on the curve of the splines and bowl respectively. The first mark states "METAL ALLIAGE BLANC" in a rectangle as 3 lines. The second mark, also in a box, has what looks like 2 left hands shaking each other and under those is 100 Gr. on the back of the handle, also in a box, is "SFAM". They weigh about 3-4 ounces each so I'm pretty sure the 100 Gr means 100 grams, but so interesting that the spoon and the forks The style is plain with a ridge in middle of the handles. I know that metal alliage blanc means white metal alloy, but why would anyone
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 01-24-2003 12:29 AM
An article bearing an identification of a base metal, a surface reacting like silver and a square mark recalling french silverplate marks! Could be silverplate, non? However, I'm not completely sure of it! The 100Gr may refer to the quality of plating. The french commonly use a thickness based standard, but some manufacturers do use a weight indication similar to the german system in their sales material particularly for items that exceed the minimum thickness for class I plating. Two questions: does the square mark inlclude a roman I? how old to you estimate the items to be? IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-24-2003 12:57 AM
I think any French piece having the words "metal blanc" (white metal) is silver plate. The test results could mimic those of a sterling spoon if only the layer of plate was tested, and not the base metal. 100gr. probably refers to the quality of plate (just as we have triple, quadruple, etc. plate over here). IP: Logged |
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jack cheetham unregistered |
posted 01-24-2003 11:29 AM
hi there, thanks for the help. the forks and spoon do not have an "I" in the box but the "GR" are both capitals and the "R" is smaller than the "G" and both are seperatly underlined. in addition, inthe "SFAM" the letters are seperated by dots. I would estimate 50-60 years old by style, there is no wear-thru anywhere on these pieces and between the splines on the forks, it looks as though they were cast and cleaned up with a fine file. the polishing could not reach between the splines. i guess it will be a mystery. jack [This message has been edited by Stephen (edited 04-23-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 01-24-2003 10:37 PM
"..the forks and spoon do not have an "I" in the box .." "..50-60 years old by style.." These tho observations are consistent within my (very limited) understanding of french silverplate marks. ".. i guess it will be a mystery.." Not really. "S.F.A.M." was a silver and silverplate manufacturer started in 1894. The square mark and the absence of a Minerve clearly preclude it being solid silver. The probability is very high that it is silverplated. IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 04-23-2003 06:17 AM
quote: What was the name of the company? Do you know where were they located? [This message has been edited by Stephen (edited 04-23-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 04-23-2003 08:25 AM
"S.F.A.M." was the name of the company. I believe they did operate in Chambly, a place in northern France. Today they call themselves Chambly and their address seems to be Paris. I don't know whether they still have an independent production facility or are just one of the labels retained by a conglomerate. IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 04-23-2003 05:38 PM
Jack, I agree that the absence of the Téte de Minerve and the words Métal Alliange Blanc = french silver plate. I find lots of SFAM here. The French do mark for fineness - even silverplate. (100Gr is indeed high quality for french plate!)I've even seen marks for 1Gr. To see 2gr - 12Gr is not uncommon either, though you can just imagine the quality of these pieces. (No SFAM or Chambly in the Paris phone book - got an address? I'll check it out.) ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 04-23-2003 06:24 PM
Re: "I've even seen marks for 1Gr. To see 2gr - 12Gr is not uncommon either..." Are you talking about flatware or holloware? IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 04-23-2003 06:26 PM
Chambly 24, rue BĂ©ranger 75003 Paris TĂ©l. + 33 1 42 78 57 90
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 04-25-2003 01:22 AM
My understanding is that on old silverplated French flatware, the 100Gr mark means that 100 grams of silver was used to plate 12 forks and 12 spoons in the same pattern. For different patterns or different thicknesses of plating, the number of grams used and the mark will vary. As best as I can figure out, 100 grams would equate to a thickness of close to 30 microns. That may be wrong, so don't quote me. IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 04-25-2003 12:39 PM
What you are describing is the German standard. Indeed I wondered once before, 'Topic: Is this Christofle? how old?', what the relationship of the two is, if any. Also I thought that the number most frequently appearing on older French plated wares was '84'. Do you have any knowledge of when any of this was introduced and abandoned. I am still under the impression that France had nothing in place regarding plated wares when the new regulations came into effect in the early 1980's. As to items marked '6Gr', '1Gr' and so on, they clearly cannot relate to the same base as those with '84' or the like. Is it [This message has been edited by Arg(um)entum (edited 04-25-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 04-25-2003 08:25 PM
I have never seen the 1980s French regulations or the German "standard". Does anyone know how or where to obtain copies? IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 04-29-2003 05:30 AM
Jack, I agree that the absence of the TĂ©te de Minerve and the words MĂ©tal Alliange Blanc = french silver plate. I find lots of SFAM here. The French do mark for fineness - even silverplate. (100Gr is indeed high quality for french plate!)I've even seen marks for 1Gr. To see 2gr - 12Gr is not uncommon either, though you can just imagine the quality of these pieces. (No SFAM or Chambly in the Paris phone book - got an address? I'll check it out.)
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 04-30-2003 05:27 AM
Let your fingers do the walking? (This may be no walk in the park!) Who knows where in the bureaucracy you'll end up. Good luck! Paris assay office (Bureau de la Garantie)
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 04-30-2003 08:07 AM
Thanks! I KNEW my husband and I had walked right by it one Sunday and I had pointed it out, but neither of us could remember where... It's in the Marais! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 06-07-2003 07:45 PM
See French "metal alliage blanc" mark -- imitation silver?.
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