posted 05-03-2003 11:14 PM            

I've found again one of the sites I had seen earlier with a bit of information about the 1983 law. It is a rather terse summary and does leave many questions open; still, it is a start. The following are the main points:

- There are two qualities defined (this source has one mention of a 3rd one without giving details; if there is indeed such a thing then I suspect that it is something different in nature from the two described).

- The standard defines the minimal thickness in microns of the coating required for different types of merchandise.

- For flatware the standard differentiates between pieces used frequently and others which do not require the same thickness of plating. While I have no firm information, I assume that this is analogous to the German provision where the main place pieces require the full nominal weight and others half of that. The latter would be serving pieces and lesser used place pieces such as dessert forks and the like.

- Among holloware it differentiates between items for food use, decorative items and others. The latter might be cigaret cases, lighters, compacts, etc. Another brief reference I found somewhere else raises the possibility that it refers to items not part of the "orf�vrerie (=silversmithing)" trade.

- The marks are square (as I believe they have been for a long time) and contain the manufacturer's chosen emblem or logo and initials plus a numeral (I or II) to indicate the quality. Imported items have the top side of the square rounded.

This is minimal information and a couple of items leave me puzzled. Those parts that appear to be straight forward I have summarized below. As UBB has no tables, I have pasted this together (not great, but it's my first go at faking a table with a freebie photo tool):

Much information is missing about aspects such as distribution of the silver, surface hardness, tolerances, etc.

Let's hope that Suzanne, our roving explorer, will in time fill in some holes and flesh this thing out.

posted 05-21-2003 10:24 PM            

- My Summary of the 1983 law is based on the QUID site. I question several items: the 500 millieme (probably refers to plaque), the III qual or 'Others'
- It would be interesting to have more details on the law including tolerances, distribution and marking
- Also, if possible, some info about regulations prior to 1983.

posted 06-04-2003 12:43 PM            

Here is a rough translation of part of an article on contemporary silver and "métal argenté" flatware which appeared in the magazine "Maison Français " number 487 Spring 1997:

"The law of the 1st of July 1983 determines the characteristics of the silver deposit on pieces sold under the title of "metál argenté" (silverplate).
Two categories are defined, the quality I (with, according to the European regulation, 79 grams, in other words 33 microns of silver over twelve pieces) and II (20 microns of silver). Below the minimum of the second category, the pieces are called "métal blanchi" and cannot receive the obligatory mark for "métal argenté"."

Thus, if the standard is 79 grams, a mark saying 84GR might suggest it is better than the standard. But if this is the case, my Liberty pieces saying 60 GR would not qualify for the I Category mark that they have. Does this logic make sense?

One major difference between the old system and the 1983 is in measuring the silver - the newer standard uses microns, the actual thickness on the item, whereas the older system measures the quantity of silver needed to plate a dozen pieces. One explanation for the 84/60 difference is, I suppose, that smaller pieces need less silver to cover them to the same thickness. But the 1983 standard implies two levels depending on the expected wear on the piece?

posted 06-04-2003 04:58 PM            

Overplating under the new standard seems to be fairly common, but I'm not sure why.

It is interesting that your article equates 33m to 79g. I wonder what the other thicknesses equate to in grams.

posted 06-04-2003 09:15 PM            

Patrick, what is the 'Maison Français(e?)'? Online? Hardcopy? If the latter, could you post the key paragraphs in the original so that we can make our own interpretations?

Your article refers to a European regulation with a 79gr minimum. I did not know there was such a thing. Does the article elaborate on it, eg. date?

The relationship of thickness to weight is only determinable if there is a defined standard for the size of the plated article. Until we know what that is we are just speculating.

Stephen, can you confirm that the presence of a 'I' makes an item necessarily one under the 1983 law. I think that the 2nd quality is an innovation, but could earlier marks not incorporate a 'I'?

I don't know about the '60' on the dessert spoons. Your explanation is the one that comes to mind first. But, I'm pretty sure that the '84' refers to the silver on a dozen 2-piece settings - is the '60' then for a dozen each of dessert spoons and forks? I suspect that there is another explanation. Repeating myself: Let's wait for Suzannes successful expedition.

posted 06-04-2003 10:54 PM            

No, because I don't know when manufacturers started using marks as defined in the 1983 law. And, of course, I also haven't seen the 1983 law or the prior one, if any.

posted 06-05-2003 04:14 AM            

It is a good question though, and the answer would provide a nice way of narrowing down dates on "stuff" with these kinds of marks.

posted 06-05-2003 11:01 AM            

C'est la loi du 1er julliet 1983 qui détermine les caractéristiques du dépôt d'argent des pièces vendues sous l'appellation "metal argenté"
Deux catégories sont définies, les qualités I (avec, por la norme européene, 79 grammes c'est-à-dire 33 microns d'argent sur douze couverts) et II (20 microns d'argent). En dessous des minima de la deuxième catégorie, les piècessont dites en "métal blanchi" et ne puevent recevoir le poinçon obligatoire por le métal argenté: carré contenant les initiales et le symbole du fabricant ainsi que le chiffre I ou II

Elsewhere in the article is the following:

...l'Orfèvrerie d'Ercuis est celle qui "gramme" le plus ses couverts en métal argenté. "150 grammes (63 microns) por douze couverts, précise Michel Rouget, le président, alors que la norme européenne por la catégorie I es de 79g. C'est un argument de qualité particulièrement apprécié dans l'hôtellerie", Chez Saint Hilaire qui fait partie de la même groupe, le grammage est à 100 grammes (42 microns)...

posted 06-05-2003 12:51 PM            

Ercuis' claim to be producing the heaviest plated wares in France is probably true though today many upscale firms in Europe produce 150g plating as on option on some patterns.

I think that "norme européenne" isn't necessarily a European regulation type standard but could be someone's subjective perception (could we call it 'spin') of what a European average is. However, generally, the thickness in microns claimed in your extract for various weights points to the French using a standard surface about 5% smaller than the German etc. of 24 dm2. In addition the 33 microns of the French standard is about 10% less then the 36 microns of the "90g" standard to the north of France.

Again, it's no hardship for me to wait until Suzanne charms some technical details out of the assai office.