posted 06-07-2003 07:56 PM            

quote:

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Ruolz: 20 to 30% silver, 25% nickel and 30% copper.

One-third silver: 33% silver and 67% nickel.

These alloys are permitted provided that the pieces made with them bear the square hall-mark and the word "ALLIAGE" in full.

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• METAL ALLIAGE BLANC ???
• Hallmark Identification

posted 06-08-2003 06:44 PM            

So now we know that Ruolz didn't just discover the galvanic method at the same time as the Elkingtons but he also got some patents for alloys, and, that during the last quarter of the 19thC the term 'ruolz' may have been part of the common language like 'alfénide'. There is a choice of interpretations: a Cu/Zn/Ni alloy much like the others, or with silver added to the mix, or even a mere synonym for 'métal argenté'. And since the man had a bunch of patents to his name they may all be true.

The good thing about your post is that it brought this to light; OTOH, my appetite for this topic is running down. At least I'm going to try to let it rest for a little while or until I get to a real library.

posted 06-09-2003 10:32 AM            

" ... doobees said it was, ..."
So did everyone who responded to the thread including, as I read it, you. ("My understanding is that on old silverplated ... the 100Gr mark means ...")

Surely, you aren't going to entertain the notion that the 100g represents the actual weight in one of these obscure alloys? What about the 5gr on the serving piece?

posted 06-09-2003 04:20 PM            

It may. It may not. My only thought is that these pieces might not be plated.

I shall attempt to stifle any ridiculous notions. However, I must admit that the thought did cross my mind.

posted 06-09-2003 07:13 PM            

[See this post ( L'Orfèvrerie Alfénide). ...Stephen].

What else do you want me to look up related to Christofle?

posted 06-09-2003 08:26 PM            

You said that METAL ALLIAGE BLANC = silverplate in the topic with the same name ("METAL ALLIAGE BLANC" ???) and I didn't understand how you came to that conclusion.

posted 06-10-2003 12:58 AM            

There is solid silver, but there are different grades of purity, commonly 92.5% often known as Sterling, and 80%, often known as coin silver. There are higher standards such as the French 95%, and equally lower, for example much Indian silver which is not officially recognised.

Then there is silver plate. Why? Because silver is moderately expensive. The earliest plate was a thin sheet of silver forced onto a copper support. Around the mid 19th century, the discovery of an electrolytic process enabled cheaper metals to be coated with silver. Initially the cheaper metal was copper. This, however, was not ideal. Wear on the silver coating could reveal the copper beneath. Also copper is not a particularly strong metal etc.

Thus various people / companies tried to find a white coloured alloy to serve as a better base. These alloys have had different names; metal blanc, nickel silver, alfenide, maillechort, Christofle metal etc., with condiderable subsequent confusion.

However, whatever they are, the feature in common is that that do not contain silver.

Thus we have silver and silver plate.

If I understand METAL ALLIAGE BLANC, the implication is that this is an alloy which contains silver, perhaps between 20 and 33%. Why bother with this additional expense if you're going to slap a coating of silver on it anyway?

My feeling is that this is a product which is neither silver nor silver plate in the accepted sense, but rather an attempt to produce something inbetween. This could be described as ".200" or ".333" silver, no?

I suspect that, if this is indeed the case, it proved difficult to market - neither chalk nor cheese - and was discontinued after a short time.

posted 06-10-2003 08:11 AM            

Silver remains a part of the equasion no matter where on the french sites the info comes from. There are other alloys listed, but none other called "métal alliage blanc" specifically except with the components listed above.

PS: Did you know they use métal alliage blanc for dental work!

posted 06-10-2003 11:01 AM            

You said that METAL ALLIAGE BLANC = silverplate in the topic with the same name ("METAL ALLIAGE BLANC" ???) and I didn't understand how you came to that conclusion.

posted 06-10-2003 04:03 PM            

I've been unable to replicate the searches that you mention. Indeed for the expression "Métal Alliage Blanc" I simply find nothing. Can you pass on the URL of one of the sites you mentioned, please?

posted 06-11-2003 04:36 AM            

I also found this entertaining one and then another that list the components as being iron, carbon and titanium. The text says that it can then be forged... seems the right sort of alliage for making swords according to the "chickie-poo"" in the photo... hey, it's hot work. What's a girl warrior to do?
metaux.html

posted 06-11-2003 07:49 AM            

I can see it now, in a dental office in some remote location on the Canadian permafrost --

quote:

---

Patient: Oh doctor, please, no more of those métal alliage blanc fillings, those cyanide fumes are killing me.

Dentist: Open wide, cherie, we're almost finished, I just have to stamp the proper marks (sotto voce, 'where's the hammer'.)

Patient:

---

posted 06-11-2003 01:29 PM            

Until then, can I amend my statement to: Métal Alliage Blanc = not sterling... silverplate quality or less...

posted 06-11-2003 11:27 PM            

Sorry, no cigar.

posted 06-12-2003 01:06 AM            

I'm cracking up though, with the translation of the alliage blanc being composed of: money, copper and paladium or platinum... (argent is the french word used for both money and silver...)

Anyway, I can live without the cigar... I have my absinthe

posted 06-12-2003 06:14 AM            

(I'm surprised to have gotten no comments on the "chickie-poo" in the wanadoo metallurgy site from yesterday??? So that's because maybe dental sites are off limits, but do-it-yourself-sword-making, using alliage blanc on a hot day is OK?)

posted 06-12-2003 02:03 PM            

"Sorry to say this term is not familiar to us - does it translate as white alloy metal? There are (literally) thousands of alloys which contain nickel, so you would need to give me more information: for example what applications does it normally get used for? I know sometimes foundry people refer to White Nickel Iron which is - as it says - a nickel iron.

Our web site address is Nickel Institute

and if you have a look at technical publication 11017 (Ni Hard) you may be able to identify it. Otherwise, come back to us with more info and we will try and help.

Regards

Rosemarie Evans

Would anyone who knows what they're talking about like to take it from here?

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Suzanne D