posted 04-05-2006 08:50 AM            

I tried several times to post the following message to the Silverplate forum but unable to get accepted. I guess new membership is only to this forum. Anyways I certainly would appreciate any help with the following. Thank you.

I have a sugar and creamer from my mother which I can't identify. The sugar has "P.S.CO" "Silverplate on Copper" "205". No mark on the creamer - only scratched on the bottom "80" and "205". I have checked Rainwater's "Encyclopedia of Amer. Silver Manufacturers" and the only manufacturers that come close are Poole and Preisner. I also checked [on line matching service] silver sections under Poole and Preisner, but they don't have a pattern 205 listed for either. I have uploaded a picture of the pieces with a scan of the mark:

Does anyone know for sure the identity of the manufacturer?
TIA.
---Susan

posted 04-05-2006 10:42 AM            

Also in the meantime have read more postings in this forum and see that folks are introducing themselves. I am a misplaced/displaced Yankee from New England located in the Memphis, TN, metropolitan area. My silver interest stems from my family's antiquing interests as long as I can remember. Most of my interests have revolved around early New England furniture. Another interest of mine that works will with antiquing is that I am an avid genealogist very much involved in USGenWeb projects of MA and CT. I host the USGenWeb websites for the town of Plymouth, MA and several towns in NE CT. My mother died a couple of years ago and am now just getting into her silver and trying to detail the manufacturers, dates, and family history connected to the pieces for the next generation. I have been able to identify most of the many pieces with Rainwater and internet searches. I have now come down to the problem pieces/children. I doubt this particular sugar and creamer are of any value but that doesn't matter at this point.

Again TIA for any help.
--- Susan

posted 04-05-2006 11:12 PM            

"Do you have the rest of the tea set?"

Sorry to say no. Like you I was impressed with design, size and understatement of the set. I don't think she ever had more than these 2 pieces. There is a possibility they came down to her from a relative??? I was hoping to find a matching small tray in her stuff and such - no luck. She had other sugar and creamer sets but they all had small matching trays. The others definitely came down from great aunts and such. If I could prove out the manufacturer, it would be a bit easier in dating these pieces and from there possibly knowing their history like were they wedding gifts to my parents in the mid 1930s or were they passed down to her from the previous generation. Mother also had a sterling silver coffee service and a full tea and coffee service - both wedding gifts to my parents.

--- Susan

posted 04-23-2006 03:26 PM            

One thing that distinguishes silverplate production, in general, from sterling and coin is that marks on silverplate are brand names. They really are not maker names in the sense that a sterling mark is.

Poole sold their wares in large part through department stores. And they early on became part of the 'look' method of selling. This was a way for a store to set up a room, even an entire house, decorated and accesorized with things sold in the store. At any given moment, a store might offer three or four table ensambles. This would include coordinated silver, china, crystal, linens, furniture, pictues, furniture and drapes. Each would be in a different current style: simple, ornate, traditional, moderne, whatever.

Poole supplied a great deal of such silver. And was willing to change marks to accomodate the needs of the stores. I once encountered some Poole candlesticks with varied marks. All were identical in form and design. But some bore a mark that indicated they were part of a Danish Modern line of tableware. Something like 'Nordica', AIR.

Which is why Poole is hard to trace. There are all sorts of marks used that conform to the requirements of department stores, not the silver trade.

Looking at your pieces, my guess is they could have been made from 1893 onwards. Which is no help.

Isolated creamers and sugars like yours indicate a certain style of entertaining. This fashion involved someone circulating with tea and coffeepots among seated guests. The guests had their sugar and cream at hand, while awaiting fresh hot beverage.

Hope this helps, Dale

posted 04-26-2006 09:14 PM            

Thank you, for the Poole info - very interesting.

This fashion involved someone circulating with tea and coffeepots among seated guests. The guests had their sugar and cream at hand, while awaiting fresh hot beverage.

Again very interesting. Hadn't thought of a reason for the large amount of suger and creamers out there, and this certainly makes sense for it.

Am I correct in assuming you think this set is probably by Poole rather than Preisner? When I first examined the set I was sure this was Poole until I spotted the mark used by Preisner Silver Co. in Rainwater, p. 18 which has all the letters capitalized.

I am passing on much of Mother's silver to her granddaughters. I guess when I pass this on, I'll say probably by Poole but a chance by Preisner. As to date, can only say after 1891.

Venus, thank you for your greeting. I hope I can be of some help on this forum for I have certainly found help in searching the archives.

posted 04-27-2006 11:28 PM            

Looking at the information on Preisner, something strikes me. The years 1935 to 1985 were a particularly difficult period for the US silver industry. From 1935 to 1941, there was a vast amount of unused capacity in the silverplate industry. So, rather than raise capital to invest in more, it would have been more business=like to have silverplate made for one's firm by someone with a silverplate factory already in place.

During the war years, silverplate was not produced at all. Sterling was. In the post war years there were shortages and problems with silverplate production all across the industry. Things did not return to normal until the mid 50's, just in time to be hit by the trend to casual living.

By the late 60's, silverplate was becoming a seriously dying industry. So when would Preisner have put in their silverplate production line?

One thing to keep in mind, my rule is this: marks on sterling are generally about the maker; marks on silverplate are frequently about how it was sold.

posted 05-06-2006 12:25 AM            

Dale, your posts on the plausibility of Preisner not manufacturing silverplate are very reasonable. Then on reading T-bird's message I checked around some more today. I found the address and phone# of George Preisner Jewelry in Wallington, CT. Will call tomorrow and if I can't get hold of the owner will write him and enclose pics of the items and trademark. I also did a quick look-see over at that major online silver/china replacement service. Low and behold they have listed for Preisner Silver Co.: Misc Pewter, 14 Sterling patterns, Misc. Sterling, Misc Silverplate (#B40) and Silverplate pattern #752 - allll in hollowware. The #752 silverplate hollowware pattern resembles the round understated design of my set - though the bases are different.

I will still call or write the Preisner Co. in Wallington, CT, and try to get it in writing that this creamer and sugar set is by Preisner. When I get an answer one way or another, I will post it here.

Thank you both for the replies!

posted 05-08-2006 04:10 PM            

Just got off the phone with George Preisner Jewelers, Inc. of Wallingford, CT. I called earlier this morning leaving a message for George Preisner with his secretary(?). I told her about the creamer and sugar with the trademark and asked if Preisner Silver Co. ever made silverplate with that trademark. She didn't know but would ask Mr. Preisner when he arrived. She called back with George Preisner in the background - I could hear him answering the questions.

He said, "yes", his father definitely made silverplate using the trademark of capitalized PSCO. His father passed away several years ago. The Preisner Silver Company was sold a good 30 yrs ago. Mr. Preisner could not tell off the top of his head when the company was formed without looking it up and as customers were waiting to see him he had to go. The woman said this company was not connected in anyway with Mr. Preisner 's father's company. The jewelry company deals in of course jewelry along with pewter and some silver.

Searching the web, it appears some people may by mistakenly credit their Preisner stamped silver to the son, George S. Presiner who is in business today in Wallingford.

There is a pic online of this George S. Preisner at a 2004 Southern Jewelry Trade Show in Atlanta:

The Southern Jewelry News

posted 05-08-2006 07:40 PM            

I'm going to write a thank you to him sometime this week and note this discussion on the forum - including this web address. As I didn't literally talk to him personally, only via his secretary/clerk or whomever, I'm not sure of his internet interest. The women said the company/store did not have a website. I was hoping to quiz him more via e-mail.

--- Susan