posted 07-05-2006 11:29 AM            

Hi Guys Just thought I'd share a couple of the trays I picked up with a couple Questions.

There is no material stamp on these trays. Could they have been wiped out by resilvering, which I suspect these have been resilvered, or wasn't it a practice to include silverplate or quadruple plate at one time?

I would think they are from the late 1800s by all that I have read. Any guesses?

Enjoy
pbanz

posted 07-05-2006 12:31 PM            

And I also couldn't find any information on the company using their initials only, witout any other markings. Maybe someone can share some knowledge in that area.

I am sure someone will appreciate looking at the trays anyway. They are not that readily found. A least not in this area..

Thanks again
pbanz

posted 07-05-2006 01:33 PM            

Check out the Silverplate forum, which has lots of info on your question. Unforunately, dating plate is very hard because marking it was not regulated. Wyler wrote a good book on silverplate with images of company marks. That might help.
See if you can find a registry, patent or order number on the underside of the trays. That might also help.

posted 07-05-2006 02:49 PM            

EG Webster's main line of products was reproductions of older styles. The use of old English letters is normally pretty meaningless in terms of determining age, especially in silver plated things where, unlike silver objects, there is no control over how a company marks their silver plated goods. If anything things like old English letters most often an indication that something is not as old as it is trying to be and is a marketing tool.

I would agree that your plates appear to have been recently replated. They are much to shiney to the point of looking rather harsh. There is no patina of age on them. Likely someone found them with most of their plating long gone and had them replated.

posted 07-05-2006 03:04 PM            

The only mark on them is the Old English EGW&S as shown.

My question was, could the resilvering have covered up any other marks? Yes, silver plate is big pain but with each search I do learn more...

The age is for anyone to guess. I would think they are early EG Webster & sons products of the late 1800s.

I was hoping someone else has seen that pattern and recognized it making it possible to come closer to the actual date.

I am just sharing some beautiful Silver Plate. I have not seen this in here or elsewhere.

posted 07-05-2006 05:30 PM            

Well, they could have been given to this 90 year old ladys' parents as a wedding gift and have been tucked in the attic for all these years. <smile>

I will search books for that pattern.

Thanks again
pbanz

posted 07-05-2006 06:07 PM            

The most you can say with any confidence is the earliest possible date would be 1886. The last possible date is not necessarily 1928 since Webster was bought out by International Silver then but IS had a reputation for continuing to use the markings of companies it bought out in order to increase their market share. Stylistically I understand your guess at late 1800s but I can not agree that such a date is any more likely than 1920s or even later since Webster was so big on making silver plate in older looking styles. They really could be anywhere in that broad timeframe. Retro is not just a modern concept in design and marketing.

posted 07-05-2006 06:30 PM            

But you are right. Its almost impossible to trace back to a specific date when silver pieces were made. Sterling included.

posted 07-06-2006 02:05 AM            

For some reason, silver companies let tea set designs change and evolve over the years. But the trays remained the same, simply married to new improved tea set styles. The round one strikes me as one that went with a martini set. Check out Webster's offerings in that line to see if any match. And also check free standing flower frogs for a match. The design is somehow familiar, it goes with something I have run into. Rambling here.

The oval one is a beauty. It probably had a tea set, or series of tea sets, that 'coordinated' with it. Is the bottom flat or gently rounded? This may have come with a dome. Something about it suggests restaurant quality, which is quite high.

Kimo is very much on target. IS used marks in a very capricious and difficult to follow manner. It is entirely possible that Wallace International is still making trays from the old Webster dies with the Webster marks.

These may not have been replated, just professionally buffed. Frequently trays were heavily plated to begin with.

posted 07-06-2006 09:18 AM            

There are no flat and smooth mirrored surfaces around the oval tray. The places you'd think to be flat, as seen in the picture, are rough texured and domed. The bottom of the tray is flat.

To put a proven age on them would be impossible. Its just hard for me to believe that it was made recently by Wallace International or any period by International. The Inernational products I have seen, from the fifties on, are so light and cheaply made I do not normally pick them up. I can't imagine them making something so heavy and well done. The same goes for the International Wallace.

After looking more closely at the round tray I agree with you about the pieces not being resilvered.

What the hey, they are beautiful regardless of when they were made.

Wait til you see the next unknown piece. It has the material stamped on the bottom.... with no name. HA

Thanks so much Dale
pbanz

posted 07-09-2006 11:15 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dale:
It is entirely possible that Wallace International is still making trays from the old Webster dies with the Webster marks.

---

According to Rainwater, 4th ed.,

"International...in 1981 sold its plated holloware buisiness to Oneida, Ltd..."

And under Oneida Sterling (I guess the editor just stuck this in here for some reason) "In 1981 the following Webster Wilcox holloware pattern trademarks were purchased from International Silver Company:
Wilcox & design, Craftmetal, E G W & S & design, Forbes & shield & design, Feather-Crown-Lion & design, Wellington, Straffordshire (sp?), Webster Wilcox, Chippendale, Rococo, Jo Anne. Webster Wilcox, Chippendale, Rococo and Jo Anne are presently (1986) in use by Oneida on holloware. In addition, they licensed certain trademarks and of those licensed trademarks, Countess is presently being used on holloware."