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Author Topic:   WMFN silver mark
keekster1

Posts: 11
Registered: Jun 2007

iconnumber posted 06-22-2007 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keekster1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1433]

I have several silver items marked with WMFN (slanted) followed by 0 or 1/0. I have seen two different identifications of this mark. One says it is coin silver made by William F. Newhall of Lynn, Mass (19th Century), the other says it is WMF of Germany. Who is right?

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-25-2007 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi and welcome to the forum.

You would more likely get an informative response if you take a few minutes and go back and read the guidelines for this forum at Guidelines

We are just a small group of people who like silver and as you will see when you read these instructions we ask new people to please introduce themselves by sharing a little information on their interest in silver in general and why they are asking about the particular objects in their posting.

Also, descriptions of markings are of little help since there are so many similar markings. It is essential that you add some photos, both clear closeups of the markings and clear photos of the overall objects. There are instructions on how to post your photos here How to post photos
In addition to being able to make an informed opinion, posting photos enables everyone on this forum to see and share in the appreciation of silver.

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keekster1

Posts: 11
Registered: Jun 2007

iconnumber posted 06-25-2007 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keekster1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the advice. I tried taking pictures, but I guess my camera isn't good enough to get good, clear close ups. The marks just come out as a blur.

One of the pieces is a porcelain serving bowl with a silver rim. I picked it up at a high end estate sale. I got it because it was pretty and one of the few pieces I could afford. The dealers seemed to pay little attention to it. I didn't even notice the silver mark until I got it home. I think I got a bargain at $15 regardless of the maker. I have spent hours online trying to research the mark. That's how I found this forum. I guess my curt question was the result of much frustration. Sorry.

I also have two cups with this same mark that I bought on ebay after finding the bowl. Unfortunately I tried to clean them with silver polish. I'm afraid I have ruined them since they are likely coin silver. As you can tell, I know little to nothing about silver. I plan to read this forum regularly and get some books on the subject to see what info I can obtain. Thanks.

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argentum1

Posts: 602
Registered: Apr 2004

iconnumber posted 06-25-2007 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are not able to get a decent photo of the mark then try to do a line drawing. Remember that verbal descriptions can mean something totally different to me than they do to you. Welcome to the forum.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 06-25-2007 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi!
You might also try using a magnifying glass to the mark & shoot the photo through that. That said, if you can do it and I'll se if it matches what info I have been able to get.
Welcome also to the Forum.
Jersey

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-25-2007 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The taking a photo through the magnifying glass trick can work well, or doing your best to make a drawing is another possibility. On the other hand, almost all digital cameras these days have a feature called a macro setting. It is identified by a little pictogram of a flower. The macro setting on a digital camera will allow you to get up very close to your subject.

In the meantime, from your description my first guess is that it is more likely going to be Württembergische Metallwarenfabrik (WMF) but until we see a photo or good drawing this should be taken with a whole shaker worth of salt. WMF is found mainly silver plated things, and there is a mark with an N on the end - WMFN which stands for Nickel Silver - which despite its name is a nickel alloy with no silver. Also, WMF is sometimes seen with an I/O supplementary marking that stands for '1 gram of silver was used to plate 100 square centimeters' which is not an exact measurement but was a marketing tool to encourage people to buy it. This may or may not be what you have and until an image is available there is no way to say with any certainty whether this is what you have.

If it were solid silver, your polishing would not have ruined it, though over polishing to the point of removing all patina is seen by many as 'ruining' nice old silver. Silver plated objects, especially ones that do not have very thick plating can, however, be damaged by enthusiastic polishing. You can literally polish the silver right off and wind up with nothing but the base metal. Your bowl may already have had its silver polished off of it in spots before you took to it though so don't feel too badly. That may be why the estate sale managers, who are usually pretty savvy people who miss very little, left the bowl as it was and offered it for a modest amount of money. One thing to keep in mind is that even very wealthy people buy or acquire some very inexpensive material over their lives. Buying from a high end estate sale is no assurance that things there will be high end. Also, many estate sale managers will 'salt' sales by mixing in some additional stock of their own to help move it and make some extra money.

By the way, the term coin silver is commonly misunderstood. It simply means an alloy of silver that is normally a bit below that of sterling and above that of 800 silver. Sterling is an alloy that is made with 92.5 percent pure silver. Old coin silver is an indeterminate amount of silver in the alloy but is normally somewhere in the general area of 90 percent pure silver. The reason it is indeterminate is that it was made from recycled objects made of silver including old broken candlesticks, worn out spoons, bent plates and such, plus whatever silver coins were available to throw into the melting pot. That was way back in the day when silver was not generally available from your local precious metal supply company. Modern coin silver is exactly 90 percent pure silver and is made specifically as this purity for people who like the look of it. 800 silver is 80 percent pure silver alloy, 835 silver is 83.5 percent pure silver alloy, etc. The one kind of silver you will never see is 100 percent pure silver. It is way too soft in pure unalloyed form to be useful. A 100 percent pure silver spoon would bend trying lift up some stiff mashed potatoes. So long as you don't scrub away the patina, a nice gentle paste silver polish with a pure cotton cloth is not going to harm any of these grades of solid silver alloy. Don't use silver dips since they are not only way too harsh and remove the patina, but they have a chemical in them (thiourea) that is quite harmful to people (it is a known carcinogen).

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keekster1

Posts: 11
Registered: Jun 2007

iconnumber posted 06-26-2007 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keekster1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Kimo, Argentum1 and Jersey! I tried to take some photos using different techniques. I'm hoping I have posted them correctly.

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keekster1

Posts: 11
Registered: Jun 2007

iconnumber posted 06-27-2007 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keekster1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is the mark:

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 06-27-2007 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd say Kimo was right on the mark with the attribution to WMF. Although it's hard to be sure from the small photo, it certainly appears to be consistent with WMF plated wares, and c. late 19th to early 20th century. You'll find a brief history of the firm in Rainwater, and other information in posts here as well.

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keekster1

Posts: 11
Registered: Jun 2007

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keekster1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you FWG and Kimo. I just found out that another porcelain and silver piece with the same mark was made by Musterschutz. That would make sense that the silver rim would also be made by a German company.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello again!
If I am not mistaken the word Musterschutz is the German word for patented or registered design, not a company name.
Jersey

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keekster1

Posts: 11
Registered: Jun 2007

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keekster1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Jersey. Based on your response I did further investigating. According to some sources, "Musterschotz" is a German factory reknowned for its beer steins, while others echo your information that it simply means patented. I guess the pottery world can be just as confusing as the silver world!

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi!
I would say spelling is the key!
Enjoy the day!
Jersey

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keekster1

Posts: 11
Registered: Jun 2007

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keekster1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I meant Musterschutz.

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