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 Oneida Keystone Carnation Silverplate Premium Information Request
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| Author | Topic: Oneida Keystone Carnation Silverplate Premium Information Request |
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melanie2002 Posts: 6 |
posted 01-16-2014 08:44 AM
  
I ran across this pattern about 10 years ago and have been collecting it since. I probably have 200 individual pieces at this point. I know some basic information about this pattern, and have seen some limited information within this forum (about strawberry forks, and 2 pages showing examples from a book). All of my pieces have the Keystone markings except for one. I did acquire one piece that does not. It's a sugar spoon, and the pattern is exactly the same as my other Carnation sugar spoons, BUT it is marked "ROYAL MFG. CO A1". It is not silver plate. Does anyone know why it is marked this way? I can’t find any records of this company having a patent to this pattern. Finally, I have read but never seen any documentation where this pattern was offered as a premium by Carnation Milk Co. I have written to both Nestle and Carnation and both replied that they had no records of this having been done. Any information would be greatly appreciated. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 01-16-2014 02:18 PM
Hi Melanie. Could you please give a brief introduction of yourself per the guidelines in the yellow box near the top of this page. Also, photos really are very important so could you please add some photos of the overall spoon and a closeup of the markings? They would be very useful in responding with greater certainty and they would allow everyone her the chance to enjoy seeing your silver and better understand your question and any responses. Finally, why do you believe that this particular spoon is not silver plated? Best regards, IP: Logged |
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melanie2002 Posts: 6 |
posted 01-16-2014 03:04 PM
I am a novice collector of silverplate, but also collect milk glass and old Mason jars. I am posting because I collect the Carnation pattern, and I'm interested in learning more about it. I have come up empty when I've contacted Nestle and Carnation about this pattern. I don't think it's silverplate because the weight is off. It feels much lighter than my other pieces. Also, I bought it under the impression that it was a Keystone piece and silverplate. When I received it and found it was different, the seller confirmed it was not silverplate but couldn't tell me much else. IP: Logged |
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melanie2002 Posts: 6 |
posted 01-16-2014 03:25 PM
These are more pictures for reference of some of the other Carnation pieces I have, all with the expected Keystone markings. I've purchased more pieces, but haven't photographed those yet. If I've included too many pictures, feel free to delete as needed. I have collected this pattern since I was in high school, and look for new pieces on a daily basis. IP: Logged |
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melanie2002 Posts: 6 |
posted 01-16-2014 03:26 PM
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melanie2002 Posts: 6 |
posted 01-16-2014 03:37 PM
Finally, here is a view of the hallmarks. All my pieces but the sugar spoon I mentioned earlier have these same marks. This is a picture of the only boxed piece I believe may be in the original pink box (shown).
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park1226 Posts: 102 |
posted 01-16-2014 07:21 PM
The Royal Manufacturers Co. operated in Detroit, MI until 1908 and is listed as sellers of silver plate and nickle silver which actually is not silver but simply an alloy of copper, nickle, and zinc. Nickle silver is also the base metal for silver plated flatware. That is what your odd piece is. Royal apparently actually did not manufacturer any patterns but served as a retailer of certain lines that they affixed their factory marks to. There are no full line flatware patterns attributed to them (see Davis & Deibel). They also sold watch cases that were made by Waltham and Elgin. Your odd piece is peculiar that it has the A1 designation that was a quality mark for silver plate but it was not plated. I suspect that W R sold Royal their unplated nickle silver blanks. Royal would then have added their factory stamp and market them as nickle silver. The pieces would probably have not been called Carnation. At the time nickle silver was considered and sold as bargain basement cutlery. Finally, I have heard the anecdotes re. Carnation being a premium but have never seen an old advertisement to confirm this like those that exist for the Orange Blossom, Hanover, and other "premium" patterns. IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 01-16-2014 11:16 PM
Hello, Welcome to the forum. There is a forum member who has some information on this pattern, (btw your set is lovely). If you do a forum search for "Carnation" Strawberry Forks that may help. Also, A1 is silverplate. It is my understanding that this was used as a marketing tool to make people think it was good stuff! It is still silver plate and IMHO perhaps of a lesser quality of plating. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Jersey IP: Logged |
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melanie2002 Posts: 6 |
posted 01-17-2014 08:57 AM
Thanks. I did see the forum about the Strawberry forks, that's how I found this site and what made me decide to post. Thank you both for that information, it's very helpful and I appreciate your time. Perhaps it wasn't a premium after all, since both Carnation and Nestle have written to me that they have no records of it. I was just hoping they were wrong! It would have added an extra dimension to it for me. I wanted to find out what pieces were available so that I would know what I was missing. I've looked on [pattern matcher], and there are many pieces there, but a lot seem to be pieces they've made themselves. I've never purchased from them before. Anyway, thanks again. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 01-17-2014 10:19 AM
Hi Melanie. Many thanks for introducing yourself and sharing the photos of some of your pattern. I think this one is one of the nicer ones of the era and I can easily understand why you chose it. You have been given really good advice on your 'black sheep' sugar spoon especially in Park's comprehensive response. Also, there are many urban myths about companies giving away flatware pieces as premiums, but there are also cases where this was true. The best thing to do is to take such stories with a large grain of salt until you can find a copy of an actual advertisement or some other hard proof. Also, when there were premiums they would not likely be silver and instead be either plate or some non silver, silver color metal such as nickle silver or german silver or alpaca or the like. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 01-17-2014).] IP: Logged |
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