posted 01-14-2017 01:05 AM            

I'm a stained and etched glass artist since the early 70's. Still going strong. My metal detecting hobby has brought me to many sites and many incredible finds. Research and history are among my favorites.

The silver clog clasp was dug in Cape May county. The hallmark is unique to those of the Syng family hallmarks. Besides the two PS hallmarks, one being cocked on an angle to allow for the little scene of an Indian with full headdress sporting a deer skull topped tomahawk standing over a rabbit or pig. Directly behind him is the silhouette of a horse. There looks to be lettering in the incuse area behind the Indians back. Not sure what is going on in the far right corner.

Any input is most welcome in identifying the hallmark to a smith.

Thanks,
Art

posted 01-14-2017 06:27 PM            

Without the engraving the date might be anywhere from 1700 to 1850 but I think such engraving is unlikely to be 19th century. I can’t help with the maker’s mark on your piece and saying 18th century doesn’t narrow the date range much when looking for a likely candidate. If I had to plump for a likely date after looking at the very few English comparators, I might suggest c.1730-1750 but you are probably ahead of me on all this.

The scene beside the marks is intriguing. Odd to put it on the back if it is meant to be decorative. I can’t make out whether it is engraved or stamped. If engraved it might be a later embellishment after the clasp had lost its original purpose. If it was stamped with the marks I wonder whether it might actually have been meant to represent a silversmith with his hammer, whatever it now looks like. Or might the clasp have been made from a recycled bit of silver that already contained tis scene?

Sorry to have rambled but at least it shows you have caught my interest. Thanks for that.

[This message has been edited by agphile (edited 01-14-2017).]

posted 01-15-2017 12:50 AM            

It is a unique piece. I'm glad I caught a glimpse of the barely noticeable scene. It made me laugh. I automatically though of someone young making this silver clog with its Indian scene. The hallmark resembles Philip Syng Jr's hallmark in a way, but with its slant and openness its new. Possibly an apprentice making his own personalized clasp, or just killing time. The second PS hallmark is slanted, it was done purposely to allow for room of the artwork I would think.

I do not know if this was stamped or engraved. Not sure what to look for.

Using the other relics found at the site as a timeline, coins being the easiest with date on board. The site ranges from 1697 to 1817. The 1720's to 1800's being the busiest.

Philip Syng Sr arrived in Cape May County, NJ in the 1720's. I'm sure his son Philip Syng Jr was with him and apprenticing at that time. This would place two of the smiths in the same county where it was found.

posted 01-16-2017 05:04 AM            

I agree using scraps and the re-purpose of any silver objects makes sense. I re-purpose lead in my field of work.

The second hallmark was tilted by the smith to make room for the the smiths artwork, very intentionally done.

Hoping to find if this is Philip Syng Jr's or his sons hallmark.

This site has a few of the hallmarks.
WEV's American Silversmiths - Index of Initial Marks - P

Best regards,
Art

posted 01-16-2017 10:25 AM            

First the form and making. The shape is simple but has a sophistication of its time. The engraving is also simple but again has elements of its time. The wiggle work diagonals and of course the tulip.

The marks are a bit of a mystery. The 3 books I looked in did not make me feel confident that it was a Syng mark. The stamping of them seems very much typical of a smith double marking to bump up its authenticity. The placement is not unusual for a small object but I doubt he was placing them to avoid a design.

That mystery design I think is the remainder impression of the coin he made this from. I would look at period coins and see if you can find the image on a back or front that matches.

posted 01-16-2017 12:06 PM            

I believe the wiggle lines on the front with the tulip represent a plowed field. As to a coin bearing this small motif there are none that I know of. I have dug coins from around the world and studied such. I know of nothing this small on a coin. The entire design is within the confines of a 1/8 inch area, that would leave 1/32 of an inch per design. I believe there to be 4 designs total with possible writing in the incuse area of the Indians back. There is allot going on in a micro area. As to the hallmark reading upside down to the scene, I would think reading left to right everything has its bottom margin with the design and hallmarks paving the way to there own relationship.

I'm with you, its not a known mark, if it is a Syng hallmark where do you start. The many other known hallmarks had to start somewhere. With Syng Sr. plying his craft here in Cape May for a number of years, and the relationship to Dr. Philip Syng Physick, in the Cape May area it seems the mystery deepens.

I on whole believe the little scene was created by a young smith intentionally. Whom is the big question, and the why opens many avenues of thought.

Thank you for your very helpful ideas.

Best regards,
Art

posted 01-16-2017 01:01 PM            

At first, I was bothered by the flower's orientation. But after viewing numerous other clasps the horizontal orientation of the flower seems typical. A pair of clasps might be orientated:

Also after viewing the marks and marking style of numerous other silver clasps the marking seems correct for an English clasp.

I do see a lion mark which should indicate a sterling standard but I am unable to decide which stance the lion is in.

I'd be more cautious about making attributions about the smith. Speculation on the Internet often gets warped into fake fact. And fake facts can kill true historical facts.

Have you researched the Cape May, NJ, historical property records? There might be info about a transplanted English farmer or farm hand that relates to where the clasp was found?

The Cape May Hall of Records has documents and volumes dating back to the 1690's.

posted 01-18-2017 09:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ahwt:
The New York Times has an interesting article today;
Archaeologists and Metal Detectorists Find Common Ground.

It would seem that there is a natural identity of interest in these two groups and research certainly would benefit if they continue to nurture this relationship.

---

posted 01-18-2017 12:36 PM            

I agree, no master silver smith would waste his time doodling on the back of a clog clasp. A young minded smith might. I'm a forth generation artist and spent many of hours doing just that on my works as a young apprentice.

A cowering animal, a fierce Indian, and the hero on a running horse to the rescue, a young story at that. My interpretation.

If you see nothing there but bumps I understand.

posted 01-19-2017 02:36 AM            

This is the best I can do with a close up picture. The head of the horse appears to have a bridal with rosette, and reins. I can see the face and body outline not sure of the arms and leg placements, just to worn but a tail is visible.

posted 01-19-2017 10:11 AM            

Pareidolia - a type of apophenia, which is a more generalized term for seeing patterns in random data. Some common examples are seeing a likeness of Jesus in the clouds or an image of a man on the surface of the moon.