posted 12-14-2004 08:01 AM            

My family history indicates that these silver candlesticks were given to my g-g-grandparents as a wedding gift in Poland about 1860. Grandma says they were made in England, but the hallmarks do not appear to be English. The left mark appears to be "AGoldman" or "Goldman", and the right is heart-shaped with what appears to be a "12" in it. Can anyone help me with the style, origin and history?

Thanks!

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Gary

posted 12-14-2004 11:29 AM            

These seem to be an area of silver that has had little research. In my experience, generally such pieces are associated with Judiaca. They are presented as being the Shabbats candlesticks. Warsaw seems to be the usual point of origin. I have seen some marked Warczawa. And Riga. Plus places I have never heard of.

Generally they are light in weight. They can be found both in silver plate and in pewter. The pewter is more like the Scandinavian: very thin and light; almost more like tin than English pewter. The type of polish they take varies. Some will shine, others will be dark. It seems that the electroplating had mixed results.

Dating these is tricky. You need to rely on tradition. 1860 seems very likely.

My own description would be that these are candlesticks made and sold in Eastern European Jewish communities from the late 1700's down into the 1930's. They were used for Shabbat. Sometimes there is an associated oval basket with movable handle, used for bread. The makers and retailers are unknown to us.

posted 12-14-2004 11:36 AM            

I can't believe how fast you responded. The information you gave is extremely interesting and will be added as a footnote to my grandmother's stories.

Thanks!

posted 12-15-2004 10:05 PM            

What puzzles me - if your sticks are by the Warsaw A. Goldman - is why they do not have Russian hallmarks. Warsaw was part of Russia in the 1860's, and Russian silver marking laws had been in force there since 1852, when the Russian government opened an assay office in Warsaw.

Could they be a bit earlier, say 1850? That would make sense to me. In 1850, A. Goldman would have been a young silversmith, perhaps a journeyman not yet admitted to the Warsaw guild - hence no old Warsaw marks - but neither under the jurisdiction of the Russian Assay office, which had not yet been established. This scenario would explain the simple "A. Goldman - 12" mark.

posted 12-16-2004 08:27 PM            

Here, specifically, the information on the Goldmans is from "Srebra Warszawskie: 1851-1939", v. 2 by Ryszard Bobrow (Warsaw: National Museum, 1991), which is essentially an exhibition catalog of Warsaw silver, but the entire second volume is devoted to maker's marks.

The information on the Russian Assay office in Warsaw is from "Znaki Na Srebrze" by Michal Gradowski (Warsaw: Wydawnictwo Naukowe Pwn, 2001) the definitive work on Polish city marks (though it has no maker's marks.)

Unfortunately, they are both in Polish, but I find that most foreign language books on hallmarks are readily decipherable with the help of a good dictionary. A handful of words - born died, master, apprenticed, etc. - goes quite a long way.

posted 12-16-2004 11:12 PM            

I'm not sure I understand you, though, that "usually it is far easier to buy the earlier pieces than the later ones anyway." I find 19th century continental silver much more available on the market than earlier European items. 18th century items are becoming more and more scarce and increasingly expensive, and I find many collectors turning to the 19th century, which produced pieces that can be quite fine and beautiful in their own right.

They also bring with them a bit of history that I find seductive. These candlesticks, here, for instance, document the partition of poor Poland among the Austrians & Prussians & Russians and portend the grim fate of the Jews under the boot of the Tsar.

I like very much that this board focuses on history and scholarship while letting commerce take a back seat. Though I am "in the trade", as they say, I am but a lowly clerk at a large gallery, and I also do cataloguing for some auction houses. I do not, therefore, have the financial resources to personally collect magnificent 18th century silver - I am content to admire and handle it at my work.

But mostly I see the ubiquitous Reed & Barton "Francis I" flatware, Eley & Fearn mustard spoons, Gorham pitchers, Tiffany platters, Christofle knick-knacks, etc. - all popular and grand in their own fashion, to be sure, and I certainly don't mean to knock them. But what really exites me is the obscure little 1847 spoon from Budapest by Jozsef Gretschel that I use only to eat ice cream, or the French Provincial Restauration pyx viaticum I use as a pillbox. Partly because I can afford them, but mostly because these simple, well-used and lovingly kept items more than make up in romance what they lack in splendor.

In short, 19th century Europe because it's what turns me on. I will add, though, that New Orleans (where I am) has a strong European connection, and one is, in fact, equally, if not more, likely to find 19th century French and German silver than American or British. New Orleans was part of France until the early 1800's, and most retailers imported silver from France until well after the Civil War to meet the Creole demand for the larger, heavier French style flatware. There was also a large influx of Germans here after the continental uprisings of 1848. As a consequence, much of the old family silver that turns up on the market here is 19th century French or German, so it helps to know about it.

posted 12-17-2004 08:18 AM            

Must remember to thank Maurice for asking how it is that you know EVERYTHING! Have to admit that since you joined the forums, I eagerly await your responses. I've collected silver for well over twenty years, preferring Scandinavian pieces from late 1800s into mid-1900s, however I've always bought whatever appealed to me and often they're Continental which I can ID to a point, but have always had a problem finding reference materials. Have gathered bits and pieces of info over the years, but mostly on Scandinavian marks. Hope you won't mind if I present a few pieces for your perusal in the next few weeks, in particular two different swan themed salts from my mother's collection. Was just at her house the other day and told her "bet blakstone could help me pin down those marks".

posted 12-18-2004 02:44 PM            

I can't believe that my meager candlesticks opened such an excited (heated?) conversation. Glad to see there are people interested in the history of silver pieces.

As for my candlesticks, it appears that my grandmother's uncle traveled to Poland in 1907 for his parent's 50th wedding anniversary. This would place these candlesticks as a wedding gift to his parents in 1857. As to the location of the families, my grandfather's family was from Sierpc, north-west of Warsaw (more under German rule than Russian). However, the owners of the candlesticks appeared to be from Surwalki, almost in Lithuania. I've found no other marks on the sticks, and the marks are identical for both.

Thanks for the enlightening detail about A. Goldman.

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Gary