posted 03-27-2005 08:27 PM            

I believe the marks are from Hamburg. But I have never found a reference book that has a good series of Hamburg date letters, let alone maker's marks. Certainly both Tardy and Rosenberg are of little use.

The date letter is W, and the maker's mark is SW under an indistinct shape. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'd like especially to be able to date it ... I wonder if it is really early-18th-century, or a later piece (which would not surprise me, given the Germans' stylistic conservatism.)

posted 03-27-2005 11:34 PM            

The Hamburg "date letters" do run sequentially, but the trick is that Hamburg had 4 assay masters working simultaneously. The first four letters A, B, C, and D were assigned (respectively) to assay masters Hansen, Schütte, Richels and Rothaer in 1688. The next letter E was given to Hansen/A's replacement Wolters in 1691, and so on. Theoretically, then, letters E-H should be roughly concurrent, then I/J-M, etc.

However, since the post was held for life and some men served only a few years and others for decades, by the time your platter was made the date letters were a jumbled mess. For instance, the next letter F went to the assayer Weber, who replaced not Schütte/B (the last of the original assayers, who didn't die until 1712) but rather Richels/C.

All this is good reminder that most continental "date letters" are not that at all: they were not meant to identify the date, but rather the assayer.

There are three very good books on Hamburg silver, but, alas, good luck finding them in the US. The New York Public Library has a copies of at least the latter two (whence came my information on one of my annual research trips there):

Konrad Hüseler, "Hamburger Silber 1600-1800", 1950
Wofgang Scheffler, "Goldschmiede Niedersachsens", 1965
Erich Schliemann, "Goldschmiede Hamburgs", 1985

The last of these may certainly be considered the definitive reference on the subject.

Hope this helps!

PS - Although I feel pretty sure that your platter is from Hamburg, is to be noted that the German city of Altona's silver mark was nearly identical to Hamburg's: three towers with a letter below.

posted 03-28-2005 09:24 AM            

I'm grateful for the names of those books. I'd looked in the Library of Congress (which usually has just about everything I could wish for on a subject), but it possesses none of those three titles. Glad to know they are in the NY Public.

posted 03-28-2005 11:23 AM            

Therefore, the "56" isn't a date. It certainly looks as if it should be - and that's exactly what I thought for some time. But no, Hamburg marks couldn't be that easy.

The 56 is what was known as a "concession" number. It was essentially a commercial registration number unique to each maker. My (admittedly fuzzy) understanding is that its function was independent of the guild and represented permission granted by the city to conduct business under is auspices. There's a separate chapter about them in Schliemann's book.

Theoretically, then, this 56 should identify the maker, but alas I did not copy this information in full - there may or may not have been a complete list of these; I just don't remember. What's the maker's mark? Maybe I can help with that.

posted 03-29-2005 08:32 AM            

Swarter, thanks ... I knew the plate was 18th-century; my puzzlement was over early vs. late. (I've seen that zigzag burin mark on German silver as late as 1820 or so.) The dealer from whom I bought the plate described it as "circa 1780," but stylistically it looked about 50 years older than that to me, which I suppose has turned out to be close to the truth.

posted 03-29-2005 03:51 PM            

As for the proofstrike-diet-burin mark-tremolierstich-zigzag-etc., while it is much more common on 18th C. (and earlier) pieces, akgdc absolutely right that it is no guarantee of age: it was used regularly well into the 19th C. I've seen it as late as 1842 in Berlin, for instance, and outside of Germany - in (Portugal?), most notably - as late as the 1870s. Also, those notorious deceivers in Hanau are known to have put false proofstrikes on their early 20th century wares to go along with their equally spurious pseudo-marks!