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Author	Topic: Kudos and a Question
Hutch Posts: 13 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 03-07-2005 10:02 PM [26-0178] I was just looking at your "stories" section and enjoyed many of them, especially the one that mentioned that adreneline rush when you know you have found something really cool.Great stuff. Now my question, I have a spoon, a fiddle back with a zig zag mark on the back. One of the stories mentioned a cup with a zig zag assay mark. I thought my spoon was turkish because of the marks above the bowl. Whats the skinny on the zig zag mark? Thanks and I am so glad I have found this site. Its the best thing besides books!Take care all. ------------------ John IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 03-07-2005 11:14 PM The zigzag mark is likely an assayer's "mark" (not a true hallmark, just the residual of where the assayer removed a certain amount of metal for assay). This is common in Germany and some other nearby continental countries. Here is an explanation by Blakstone: "The zigzag line, known by the unlikely name of a "diet" in English, is called a "Tremolierstich" in German. (I like the term "proofstrike", which I see occasionally in English translations of German catalogues; much better than the peculiar "diet".) It was produced when an assayer removed a bit of silver with a rowel-like device in order to test the content for purity." See the Continental Silver board, topic "German Beaker?", current last response 11/23/04. Alsao try the "Search" utility for "zig zag" and "zigzag" (link located near the top of the site intro page). IP: Logged
Hutch Posts: 13 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 03-08-2005 12:40 AM Thanks for your reply,and help. ------------------ John IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 03-08-2005 10:48 AM Just to put in 2 cents more, think of the zig zag as less of a mark and more about the testing of the silver content. It is made by the assayer using a flat graver making a "wiggle" or "riggle" cut ( the same used in end engraving) and removing a small amount of silver (the diet) that then gets tested. This, as said, was mostly done on the continent, English assayers scraped the piece with a flat scraper and old silver still shows that scrape mark, usually on the bottom or some out ot the way place. IP: Logged
dragonflywink Posts: 993 Registered: Dec 2002	posted 03-08-2005 12:08 PM John, Don't discount your spoon being Turkish because of the zigzag assay mark (sorry, diet is a 4-letter word to me). I've found it on other Turkish pieces. My own collection includes a nice engraved Ottoman era footed coffee cup holder with the zigzag, also bearing the tughra of Sultan Abdulhamid II (1876-1909) and a purity mark. My mother has an unmarked silver salt appearing to be of Mexican or South American origin, which also has the zigzag (guessing perhaps it traveled to Europe at some point?). Cheryl IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 03-08-2005 12:26 PM This may be stretching a bit, but usually German wriggle testing mark is deep and well delineated. When I have seen it on Turkish silver it is wider and more like a scrape but still back and forth. On Georgian silver you can sometimes find a flat scrape (not zig zag but a back and forth mark more or less in the same place). IP: Logged
Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 Registered: Apr 2002	posted 03-08-2005 12:31 PM One word of caution though: Some writers discount many of the 'diet' marks as mere embelishments to assist sales. To know whether such a mark on a given piece is genuine or 'decorative' you need to know whether and under what circumstances they were used in the jurisdiction the article was made or imported to. I'd be particularly wary about items from the Historicism period. IP: Logged
dragonflywink Posts: 993 Registered: Dec 2002	posted 03-08-2005 01:37 PM Interestingly, on my Turkish cup holder, the interior of the bowl and the underside of the base (which screws off) are gold-washed. The zigzag on the exterior of the bowl is quite dark, just like the engraving. The mark on the base has not darkened at all, leading me to believe that the assay was done before the gold wash was applied. Both pieces bear the Turkish purity mark. Would agree with labarbedor that when I've run across the mark on Turkish pieces, they appear to have been made with a wider point tool than the ones I've seen on Northern European pieces (those looking more like wrigglework). Including a picture of my zarf (cup holder), wish I had the porcelain finjan (cup) that went with it. IP: Logged
Hutch Posts: 13 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 03-08-2005 07:40 PM Thank you everyone I will now have to try to post a picture of my spoon that I mentioned. I don't know if I can get the makers marks but I should be able to get the diet mark no problem. Thank you again. ------------------ John IP: Logged
Hutch Posts: 13 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 03-09-2005 12:29 AM Well here is my spoon with the zig zag mark also the makers mark and assay mark. I assume that it is Turkish but the mark in the bowl is what I am not sure of. What do you all think, I am all ears. I also appreciate the wealth of knowledge possible from this forum, thank you so much for all your input on this topic. ------------------ John IP: Logged

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