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 Continental / International Silver
 is there a list of 19c Portuguese Makers?
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| Author | Topic: is there a list of 19c Portuguese Makers? |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 10-13-2006 01:12 PM
  
I'm trying to identify some 19c Portuguese silversmiths. Does anyone know of a source? IP: Logged |
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Silver Lyon Posts: 363 |
posted 10-13-2006 01:53 PM
Marcas de Contrastes e ourives Portugueses 2 Vols Published by Imprensa Nacional - Casa da Moeda 1996. Paperback and cheap in Portugal. IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 10-14-2006 06:19 PM
I have a copy. If you can post photos and/or good descriptions, I'll be happy to look them up for you. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 10-14-2006 06:59 PM
thanks Blakstone, the marks are Russo ca. 1870's, ??rive Saria Allianca, Correa J.J. and TAP. the local univ here has a good library but nothing specific to Portugal. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 10-15-2006 02:43 PM
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 10-15-2006 10:52 PM
OK, I guess I should have been more specific. The book is arranged first by era, then by city and then by maker, and there is no index. To make matters more complicated, after 1886, Portugese makers used the initial of their first name, not their last name. (No hope of finding JJ Correra; over 650 J's - all those Josés - and no surname index.) For instance, the mark you illustrate appears to have the city mark of Porto used 1886-1937: a seated boar in a canted square. The mark next to it - maybe S with a wheel? - is the official maker's mark. The other mark - "??rive Saria Allianca" - may be a repetiton of the maker's name or the retailer. But these are not listed, only the official marks, which (after 1886) should be the first initial and a device: the mark next to the boar. These official marks can be quite tiny and hard to make out. Before 1886, the maker's mark was generally his initals, but I need to know what city, as determined by the assayer's mark. And these are tricky, too; Porto always used a "P", but the style and outline varied from assayer to assayer in each period. So for each piece I need a full description of all the marks: the city (or assayer's) mark and the official maker's mark. A good, clear photo is best, and even a crude drawing would be better than just a description. I don't mean to be difficult, but the way the book is arranged, there's no way around looking it up by first when it was made, then where it was made, and only then who made it. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 10-16-2006 01:19 PM
Sorry blakstone, I should have realized from experience that it's never that easy. All marks are Oporto ca. 1870-1880, this applies to the TAP mark as well, which I can't get a good photo of. The makers mark with the small c looks like the Staffordhire knot mark turned on end, but maybe it's an S. IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 10-16-2006 11:57 PM
Perfect. The assayer’s mark on the first two is that of Guilherme Guedes Mancilha of Porto, working 1877-1881, which dates them very narrowly. “CORREA/J.J.” is attributed to Joaquim José Correia with the notation that his mark is found with those of assayers working 1877 -1886. (Many – if not most – of the pre-1886 marks have little biographical information.) “RUSSO” is listed but not identified, noting that this mark appears with assayer’s marks dating 1870-1881. “TAP” is not listed. The final mark is indeed “C” with a knot, and is that of Celestino da Mota Mesquita of Porto, registered in Porto in 1916 and Lisbon in 1951, transferred to his successor, his widow, in 1968, and cancelled in 1975. Since the boar mark ceased usage the last day of 1937, your piece can be dated to 1916-1937. Two and a half out of four isn’t bad, I guess. Hope this helps! IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 10-17-2006 09:32 AM
Many thanks blakstone. Any information is better than none and this does add interest to the items. thanks for taking your time. IP: Logged |
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