posted 02-15-2006 03:46 PM            

Has anyone ran across the maker C A B? I purchased 2 salt/pepper shakers. Both have 4 holes in the top and are some type of bird with long tails, a crest towards the back of the head, perhaps pheasants. On the base is marked 959 and under this it is marked C A B. They are a silver metal and I think are silver. The heads screw off and they are each about 6" long and 3 1/2" tall

posted 02-16-2006 11:37 AM            

The '959' mark is almost certainly an unclear 925 or 950, both of which are silver standards one sees regularly.

posted 02-16-2006 03:37 PM            

Actual silver proportions in an alloy can be anything from .001 to .999, but only certain numbers have been used as standards. I might miss one, but in descending order of fineness ones I have seen mentioned are .999, .980, .950, .925, .900, .850, .835, .800, .750, .700, .600, .500. In gold you'll also sometimes see funny ones like .585, that relate to the carat system (in this case, 14K). If it is 959, I'd have to agree with Kimo that it's most likely a manufacturer's code.

posted 02-17-2006 12:14 AM            

I have reviewed the Guidelines once again, and as this particular site is exclusively a reference resource, and has no commercial interest, I'm sure it complies.

You may view the site here.

However, notice that while .959 is a true Czech standard, the mark on pieces of that fineness is actually an assay-standard mark "1". The number "959" would not be stamped on such a piece. I am not at my library, and do not know off hand whether the stamping regulations of that region would have allowed for a simple "959" mark at any time in its history, or at present, but my first thought is that the mark described by venus is not consistent with Czech rules. Alternatively, it is, I suppose, remotely possible that the piece was made in the Czech republic at .959 fineness, for export, and thereby could avoid the national marking laws, though that seems like a real long-shot.

Bottom line is, without a photograph of the piece and its marks, anything we say here is purely speculation.

posted 02-22-2006 04:58 AM            

Historical and political sources include various websites about Moravia/Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, and the Czech Republic.

The earliest illustrated silver marks for the region in Tardy are dated at the 16th and 17th centuries. During this time, the area was under the control of the Austro-Hungarian Hapsburg dynasty. Standard marks for silver items crafted in this period seem to use the Löthige system: This is a ratio of 16. Typical numbers include 12 (indicating .750 purity) and 13 (.812). This system appears to be used through much of the 19th century.

After World War I, the Austro-Hungarian Empire falls, and in 1918 the Czech lands and Slovakia unite to form Czechoslovakia. By 1922, the nation established a new marking system. The marks were not very dissimilar in immediate appearance from the Russian kokoshnik marks, depicting a woman in a peasant headdress. However, the standard figure which indicates an item's fineness or purity is always a 1 (indicating .950 quality), 2 (.900), 3 (.800), or 4 (.750).

In 1929, these marks are changed yet again. The new mark is a stout isosceles triangle, inside of which is depicted a mountain range or hill country surmounted by a Patriarchal cross (this cross has two cross-beams, the lower one nearly twice as long as the upper). This mark would bear one of the standard numbers 1 (.959), 2 (.925), 3 (.900), 4 (.835), and 5 (.800).

By 1939, the Czech lands of Bohemia and Moravia were invaded and conquered by Hitler's armies, and Slovakia declared independence. Slovakia's standard marks by 1941 took the form of various similar shapes depicting a woman in peasant headdress, with the same numbers 1 (.959), 2 (.925), 3 (.900), 4 (.835), and 5 (.800). In 1942, Bohemia and Moravia used marks in the form of stout isosceles triangles decorated with a checkerboard pattern, also with the numbers 1 (.959), 2 (.925), 3 (.900), 4 (.835), and 5 (.800).

After World War II, Czechoslovakia is reunited, and soon falls into the hands of the Communist Party. In 1949, the country adopts essentially the same marking system used previously in Slovakia, except that the quality of the first standard 1 is dropped to .950

As of the publication of Tardy (1985), since 1962 Czechoslovakia (Now Slovakia and the Czech Republic) had used marks depicting (I believe) the head of a goat within various shapes, each accompanied by a number, 1 (.959), 2 (.925), 3 (.900), 4 (.835), 5 (.800), or 6 (.750).

So Czechoslovakia did in fact regularly use a .959 standard, at least from 1929-1949 and after 1962.

However, during neither of these periods did any of its standard markings ever actually bear the numbers "959".

My immediate thought would be that, despite the fact that Czechoslovakia did have such a standard, the item in question is not marked consistently with that country's regulations. Again, and this is only a stab in the dark, it is remotely possible that the item is of Czechoslovakian manufacture, but made expressly for export sale. I only say this because I know that objects made in certain other countries could escape their marking laws if made for export to another country, and not for sale in the country of manufacture. If so, and if bound for the right market, I suppose the fineness might be expressed as the numerals "959". Yet after 1929, when the .959 standard appears, Czechoslovakia (or its composite territories) stamped a special mark on pieces bound for export, usually an anchor, but in Slovakia (1941-1949) a bird with outstretched wings. I can't imagine why an item bound for export would not bear the export mark. But I actually know very little about Czech or Czechoslovakian silver (though I know a lot more now than I did before I did this research!).

It's also entirely possible that the object you're asking about isn't really silver at all, and I've wasted my breath!!! There's no way to know without seeing a picture.

Would blakstone or sazikov2000 care to weigh in on this? They are the real experts in this field. They are also likely to have more specific reference books than I.

[This message has been edited by IJP (edited 02-22-2006).]

posted 02-22-2006 07:45 PM            

Despite all the information I've provided (which was really only done for fun and for the education, if desired, of other members), I am coming to believe that your "959" mark is probably a manufacturer's code which has nothing to do with silver content. If anyone has information to dispel these doubts, do please post.

You know, at times like this, I'm very thankful that we have at least England, which has utilized essentially the same marking system for hundreds of years. English sterling has never thrilled me much, but I can now fully respect the permanence of its assay regulations. I can't think of any other nation which has managed to keep their rules straight.

I do have to confess, though, that largely the reason that Continental silver excites me so much is the complexity of assay and marking rules, the dates one has to memorize, the different stamps that one must recognize, the political events behind those changes, etc. English work is fine, no doubt, but researching its marks is by comparison somewhat mechanical, definitely lacking in the stirring undercurrents that the work of other regions offer.

posted 02-28-2006 05:33 PM            

FWG - your piece marked 1000 could be Japanese - that is the only country I know with this hall mark.

venus - before the story gets too adventurous it is better to show some fotos.