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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Dutch Figural Repousse Server??
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| Author | Topic: Dutch Figural Repousse Server?? |
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dkinney9 Posts: 9 |
posted 06-22-2007 11:54 AM
  
[26-1432] Hello, My aunt gave us a large quantity of eclectic "silver" pieces. As I ask her about the history her standard response is that it is something French and beautiful. While I agree they are all quite beautiful, I not sure about the French part. LOL. I think this "server" is some sort of Dutch Figural Repousse "Bon Bon" Server. However, the markings are so faint that all I can make out is: 1) Script Style D letter, 2) the number 0 or 6, 3) and a capital letter R. There is also what appears to be a marking on the bottom of the handle where it meets the server base. However, it is so worn all I can see is a circle like form. I attempted to capture the hallmarks as best I could. Please look at the close up of the bird. To the right of the bird and near the scroll you will see the letters and numbers that I have mentioned. This "server" is approximately 7.5 long x 3.5 in width at the widest part of the server. I am attempting to researching the history, maker, and age but am at a stand still. Any suggestions that you are willing to offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance & my kindest regards, Danielle IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 06-25-2007 09:05 AM
I don't recognize the marks, but are you sure the design is repousse? Repousse is where a silver smith creates the design by hammering or pressing on the back of a sheet of silver to raise a design on the front. In looking at the closeups of your server, especially in smooth areas such as the body of the bird it appears as if the metal has been cast in that design. The small irregularities in the surface are typical of sand casting. If this is the case this may be a more modern reproduction of an older object. IP: Logged |
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dkinney9 Posts: 9 |
posted 06-25-2007 10:01 AM
Kimo, Thank you so much for taking the time to help! I am feeling a bit overwhelmed and sure it is obvious that I am a "silver rookie". A new found lover of silver but still a rookie. I have attached 2 extra pics of the reverse. Please feel free to correct me if I misunderstood the definition of repousse. Are there any reading materials you suggest to help me identify the history of this piece? IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 06-25-2007 11:22 AM
Although I can't place the marks, I believe you are right that it is repoussé (with a cast handle, of course). I think the marks Kimo was referring to are a pattern of small hammered stamps. I've seen pieces like this both cast and repoussé, but this appears to be the latter -- especially from the new photo. The round mark above/right of the 'R' mark looks like a Dutch date letter or a Swedish town mark, but I can't make out from the photo exactly what it is. The style and workmandship does look like many Dutch pieces, but I've also seen similar from Italy, and some others that I never could definitely identify. You might try some tricks to get even clearer photos of the marks. Sometimes photographing through a magnifying glass helps. Experiment with oblique lighting, to see if that highlights them better. And always when making close-up photos like this, a tripod (or something simmilar to stabilize the camera) is really essential. Thanks for sharing! IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 06-25-2007 02:09 PM
Dutch late 19th/early 20th century. This style of spoon, sometimes called a "monkey spoon", is a very common Dutch form, originating as a birth commemorative spoon in the 16th or 17th century. In the late 19th century, they were made in high numbers in a variety of sizes as tourist or souvenir spoons. Perhaps they were marketed as bonbon spoons, I am not sure. Most of them are cast. I can't tell for sure on yours, but to me it looks like the bowl is cast or maybe die-struck with hand-pierced and hand-chased details. [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 06-25-2007).] IP: Logged |
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dkinney9 Posts: 9 |
posted 06-25-2007 02:52 PM
Hello again~ FWG, Thank you for taking the time to reply. I have attempted to gain a better pic of the hallmark. I used the magnifying glass and stabilized the camera. However, it does not look much better....Please see below. Paul Lemieux, I also want to thank you for taking the time to respond and share your insight. I did find a web site that speaks to Dutch and Swedish Hallmarks. The first URL below is for the Netherlands. The D or P in the hallmark picture looks like it might coincide with the 1815 mark. The R might coincide with the 1927 but there is no circle around the R. Why would anyone give a piece 2 date marks? Although I am trying to help myself I think I am making more of a mess. You know what they say, "A little bit of knowledge is dangerous." LOL. If anyone finds value in the URLs below please let me know. The Swedish Hallmarks listed on the URL below do not coincide with any of the marks on this piece. http://www.925-1000.com/Fsweden_Date_Code.html Is there a book that any of you would suggest to help me in my investigation. I actually spent part of the weekend at 3 Libraries and there were no Dutch Silver books available. I live between Boston & New York City and will travel to learn more. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help. Your input and comments are truly valued. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 06-25-2007 03:11 PM
I believe that's the mark of the Utrecht assay office - a diagonal bar across the oval. I mentioned the Swedish town marks just because they look similar; the piece itself is pretty clearly not Swedish! With rococo Dutch pieces like this it's not unusual for some of the marks to be very hard to find, hidden in the decoration. But some also seem to be only partially marked.... [This message has been edited by FWG (edited 06-25-2007).] IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 06-26-2007 01:55 AM
This piece is definitely Dutch, circa late 1800s to 1920s. Some of these pieces were completely unmarked, many were partially marked, and a few had complete Dutch hallmarks. This piece is not from 1815; not sure if it is 1927, as I can't quite make out the marks, but that is more realistic. What you have is an antique, or nearly antique, Dutch silver "monkey spoon" style server. I don't own a book specifically about Dutch silver, what I know is from experience and from international silver books. If you are interested in international silver beyond just this piece, I would suggest first picking up a copy of Tardy's poincons d'argent, or the English translation, in order to learn about int'l silver hallmarks. The book Art Nouveau and Art Deco Silver, by Krekel-Aalberse, is pretty good too (aside from picturing many nice pieces, it also has a decent basic appendix of both hallmarks and makers' marks), and it can be had very affordably. Next time you are in NYC, try the Strand bookstore, they had a couple copies of this for under $30 when I was in a few days ago. Or I'm sure you can find it online for even cheaper. I found my copy for about ten dollars from a discount retailer of remainders/coffee table books. [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 06-26-2007).] IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 06-26-2007 08:26 AM
I think that the shown mark could be matched up with one of the Gothic-style Dutch date letters in use from 1885 - 1909, this would also be the period of time when this spoon was made. It is a "good thing" to learn STYLE, STYLE, STYLE and this piece has Dutch/German, end of 19th century, written all over it without looking at the marks. Useful booklet about Dutch marks: Voet: Nederlandse Goud-en Zilvermerken. Krekel-Aalberse has a register of "modern" marks, not limited to the Netherlands. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 06-26-2007 09:55 AM
Dorothea, you're right, that could be the 1909 Z rather than the Utrecht barred oval - but hard to tell from the photo. I had not seen a Dutch mark like the |number over R| here, but flipping through Victor Houart's Miniature Silver Toys (which happens to have a decent selection of Dutch makers identified) I see a number of similar letter/number combinations, so clearly that's quite possible. Looking back at my previous posts here, I'm afraid I was misleading with what I intended to be a joking reference to Swedish town marks. But in terms of style, while the gestalt is clearly Dutch there are components, motifs, and techniques here that can be found elsewhere, for example Italy and Bolivia. Since the Dutch were long and heavily involved in international trade, some of their styles also spread to other areas. If one were to eliminate from this design the male figure - which is pretty distinctive to Dutch work, in my opinion - then other options would have to be more seriously considered. I believe it's Dale who likes to remind us that styles are easily portable and malleable. Speaking as an archaeologist, much of our work depends on the tendency of styles to be consistent for a particular place/time/culture, but we also recognize that that's only a tendency, with many many exceptions. The world is a big place, and ideas can occur and recur, independently or through inspiration. So my position is, by all means learn the styles - but also keep in mind the possibilites for them to mislead you. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 06-27-2007 01:25 PM
FWG just read your response now, yes of course styles have been imitated - a good example how customer demand influenced style is the Dutch looking silver production of Batavia - to this see the book on silver works for the East Indian Company - S.M. Voskuil-Groenewegen, J.J.J.Leeuwrik, Titus M. Eliens: Zilver uit de tijd van de Vereinigde Oostindische Compagnie, Gemeentemuseum Den Haag. IP: Logged |
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dkinney9 Posts: 9 |
posted 06-30-2007 08:40 AM
Thank you to all who have shared their thoughts and knowledge. It is amazing to read all the knowledge you fine folks have acquired. I am in awe. THANK YOU SO MUCH! I am off to find the books and guides recommended in this thread! Kindest Regards, Danielle IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 07-04-2007 12:42 PM
Dutch souvenir silver, whether figural whimsies (silver windmills, boats, etc.) or pieces of ornate flatware (such as the bon-bon spoon above)were imported by the carload into the US in the late 19th century, and I'd wager the importation was focused in places with Dutch roots (New York, New Jersey). I'm sure American travelers to the Netherlands bought them, too, but it seems to me that there is an inordinate amount of Dutch souvenir silver in the US, far more than would represent tourist trinkets. I grew up with little Dutch trinkets around the house, and none of my ancestors ever traveled in the Netherlands; probably because two of my NY German ancestors married into NY City Dutch families in the early 1800s...a little Dutch blood goes a long way. The Newark Museum has a load of such objects from the Coles family of Newark--probably reflecting some family connection with one of Newark's Dutch families. IP: Logged |
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