posted 04-10-2008 07:25 PM            

This is my first request!

I have a folk & spoon, diner size (about 8") by the Amsterdam assay office mark and the maker's mark from 1817. The maker's mark I don't know (but would like to know!) is in a square, with Roman R H, with a pen? above or maybe a fish? in the horizontal position.

Thanks for any help.

This is a great site!

posted 04-10-2008 08:19 PM            

I forgot to say that I'm a retired Air Traffic Controller living in New Hampshire with many interests...including collecting, using silver at my table, and learning about silver.

I also collect books about silver, and especially about silversmiths and their marks.

I found this nice Dutch-made set I mentioned above at a NH antique shop, mixed in together in a box with other silver and plated tableware. They were quite a fine!

posted 04-10-2008 10:37 PM            

It is a fish, and it's in the mark of Roelof Helweg, Sr., born 1758, master 1776. He used this mark 1814-1829, after which he was joined by his son, Roelof, Jr., who succeeded him in 1836. One source has his death in 1843, but this may refer to Roelof, Jr.

posted 04-11-2008 10:47 AM            

I did see (on line) his marks in use from the late 1700s until 1812 or so, but not this one (RH in a square with a fish above). So, I did manage to find the correct maker...just not one of the marks he used.

BTW, where did you fine this mark, if you have to time to tell me?

I need to purchase two good books. One with Netherlands maker's marks and one (or more) of French maker's marks. Any recommendations?

And again, thanks for your timely information.
Jofour.

posted 04-11-2008 06:11 PM            

For Dutch makers before 1797, that’s a bit more difficult. The best single-volume work is probably Karl Citroen’s Dutch Goldsmiths' and Silversmiths' Marks and Names prior to 1812 (Leiden: Primavera Press, 1993). It’s in a rather frustrating “text only” format – it describes rather than illustrates the marks – but it’s quite comprehensive and not too difficult to use once you get the hang of it. It’s been out of print for a while, but – good news! – it is scheduled to be re-printed this month (April 2008). It has no biographical information beyond dates of activity; for more in-depth information, there are some rather expensive out-of-print titles covering Dutch makers on a city-by city basis.

Similarly, there simply is no single comprehensive reference for French makers. The best starting point would probably be the two volumes of Dictionnaire des poinçons de fabricants d'ouvrages d'or et d'argent de Paris et de la Siene published by Imprimerie Nationale in Paris. They have photographs and dates of all the Parisian gold- & silversmith’s marks registered from 1798-1838 (in the first volume) and 1839-1875 (in the the second). These are superlative and essential references and I use them all the time; unfortunately, both are scarce and by no means cheap – expect to pay a minimum of $250 - $300 each if you can find them. Also, don’t overlook the great online reference run by the French Ministry of Culture. There, you can search thousands of marks from 1875-1914 by name, initial, symbol and more; it is essentially an online third volume of the series.

There’s a new book on French flatware that promises to have information on and marks of the hundred or so most prominent French makers of the 19th century; I haven’t received my copy yet, but I’ll let you know what I think when I do. By the way, there is a book specifically on the Helwegs of Amsterdam: Barend J. van Benthem, Twee eeuwen tafelzilver : de Amsterdamse zilversmeden Helweg, 1753-1965 (Zwolle: Waanders, 1996). I’ve never seen it, but I’d love to find a copy!

posted 04-11-2008 09:03 PM            

P.S. I have a few English pieces I have for which I am looking for the makers, and will probably post them next week. Hey, with such a source of really, really good information about a topic I am somewhat passionate about, I will use it.

posted 04-13-2008 07:33 AM            

I begin to doubt if Blakstone is a American person or he is a dutch man who went to America once. Perfect in dutch writing information from his side, my compliments.

It's nice to see topics which confirm the production of dutch silver, I hardly begin to think that here in Holland they made also silver and still do.

A question to Blakstone do you want information about silver books in Holland, if you look for a special edition I can look at some dutch websites. Let me know!

It's like collection silver it's also a sport to find silver books at low prices.

Last time I've bought a little handsome book of Jan Divis, called Silber stempel aus aller welt, 248 pages for the simplistic price of 13,50 euro.I think a remake of verlag werner dausien Hanua.

And Jofour it's good to hear you like the dutch silver.(also a lot of success with the hobby, of course).

I send a new topic about a jardiniere which I have bought yesterday at a second hand market so time flies.

Greetings,
Silverhunter

posted 04-13-2008 01:07 PM            

Thanks for your greetings and reply.

I do enjoy my nice spoon/folk of Dutch-made silver, especially as their maker (RH) has been identified! I want to find more, but first I must find some books on Dutch silver makers, so that I will know what I am looking for/at. So, I would be interested to learn your list of (affordable!) useful books, in English, on this topic. I don't know Hollander, but I do read/speak a bit of French.

Good day,
Joel

posted 04-14-2008 03:36 AM            

Here in Holland they use ISBN book numbers for order,so I don't know if this is used international. But you also can try to put the worth "zilver boeken" at (snip) websites and than some reactions will follow. I've tried this sometimes but there are only a few books and the sellers also know the prices. The best way to find a cheap book is the look at second hand book markets. Once a year there is a special book market in the city DEVENTER and about 6 km long booths with only books for sale.

In combination with a visit to our flat and cold Holland you can give it a try.

Member Blakstone means a lot for this side, because I think he is one of the most important members, considering his knowledge about all the silver of the world, the time and energy he is giving in reactions of members and questions so I think I better can stop with compliments, this must be enough.

Joel I can give you some titles if you want.

I think it doesn't matter in which language a silverbook is written, the pictures inside are beautiful, that counts.

Greatings,
silverhunter