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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 British Silver smith initials F.W.
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| Author | Topic: British Silver smith initials F.W. |
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zaganos Posts: 18 |
posted 05-15-2005 11:20 AM
  
Dear List, Hello, Is there anybody knows about this British silver smith whose initials placed on this silver pocket watch case as F.W. ? Other seals are lion passant , leopard (London) and letter L for 1886. Thanks
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Waylander Posts: 131 |
posted 05-16-2005 06:56 AM
Hmmm, am I alone in thinking that FW was probably the watchmaker, as opposed to the Silversmith? Basically, it's the wrong type of stamp for a Silversmith (to make a bit of a generalisation). Waylander IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1652 |
posted 05-16-2005 09:08 AM
Typically pocket watch cases were made by people/companies other than the watchmakers. Pocket watch were purchased in two steps. First you would select the best quality movement made by the best quality watchmaker you could afford. Then you would select a case into which you would have mounted which would be made by a casemaker. Cases could be anything from gold to gold plated, to sterling to silverplated to plain steel and be extensively engraved and decorated all the way to being completely plain depending on your budget. Waylander raises a good point though, in that the FW mark does not seem to be in the style of silversmiths of the era. Since it is stamped next to the serial number perhaps it could be a model designation? [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 05-16-2005).] IP: Logged |
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zaganos Posts: 18 |
posted 05-16-2005 03:20 PM
Dear Waylander and Kimo, Yes initials are not framed and not bold in character. So it does not look like an silversmith mark. Yet the pendant has a typical silversmith mark which is C.H and in my opinion it is Charles Harrold of Birmingham because there is also a Birmingham hallmark (anchor). Watchmaker is John Harris of Islington (London). But there is something remaininig mysterious because the case has London hallmark and no makers mark while the pendant has a silver smith initials with a Birmingham mark. IP: Logged |
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Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 |
posted 05-16-2005 03:22 PM
I agree that FW doesn't look like a silversmith's mark - however, can an object be hallmarked without a maker's mark (or responsibility mark)? My belief is the maker, or person/company taking responsibility, stamps the object with their initials before sending it for assay. However, I often see incomplete hallmarks on "multi-piece" objects, for example a teapot with lid etc. So, perhaps there are more complete marks on another part of the watch-case? IP: Logged |
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zaganos Posts: 18 |
posted 05-16-2005 03:39 PM
Yes Patrick, on the pendant there is a makers marks and can be read easily as C.H. And I think it belongs to Charles Harrold from Birmingham because there is a Birmingham mark on the pendant. But the case has London hallmark while the pendant Birmingham. I wonder why there are two different assay marks on one object. Best, IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1652 |
posted 05-16-2005 05:00 PM
When you say "pendant" are you referring to a chain and fob? Could you please post photos of this and a close up of the hallmarks? In addition to movements and cases being sold separately, chains and fobs were third and fourth items that were typically sold separately as well according to the watch owners sense of taste and the size of his wallet, and so the maker of both a chain and a fob that would be attached to the end of the chain were often different than the maker of the case or maker of the movement. In most examples you would expect to find different maker's markings on each piece - the movement, the case, the chain and the fob. IP: Logged |
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zaganos Posts: 18 |
posted 05-17-2005 09:58 AM
Dear Kimo, The term Pendant in this case is used for the upper part in shape of a globe and ring attached to the watch and has been the natural part of the watch. Almost all the pocket watches have pendants and later pocket wathes are wound with a crown embedded to the pendant. So the term pendant is totally different from fob and chain, because they are not natural parts of a pocket watch and sold separately. Here I attached the watch and its pendant. So the makers mark is visible . It is in a rectangular cartouche and initials are C.H. on the other side of the pendant there are anchor (Birmingham) and lion passant. I think this is as far as I am concerned a work of Charles Harrold of Birmingham. May it be? Best regards,
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