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tline3open  William Eaton or William Eley ?

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Author Topic:   William Eaton or William Eley ?
Leo Passant

Posts: 24
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 01-25-2006 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leo Passant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been looking through a few dealers' catalogues (and no, this is not a pre-purchase preamble) and have seen several items ascribed to William Eaton and William Eley.
There are definitely two distinct marks to be seen; both have Roman capital WE, but one surround is a perfect rectangle and the other is rectangular, but cusped (not a mishapen rectangle due to hammering).
I have seen both designs of mark many times, but have seen both ascribed to both makers! Can anyone shed any light on the confusion? Do any of "The Books" make any distinctions? I really should buy a copy of Jackson's.

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PhilO

Posts: 166
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 01-26-2006 04:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PhilO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jackson's probably won't help you much to clear up the confusion. For these marks I referred to Fallon (Marks of London Goldsmiths and Silversmiths (c1697-1837) by John P Fallon).

First the easy one: the cusped mark you describe is William Eaton (2), presumed by Fallon to be the son of William Eaton (1). This mark was entered in 1828 with several similar marks being entered until 1840.

Now it gets interesting... There were 2 William Eleys (father and son) as well as 2 William Eatons. Fallon's first WE is William Eley (1) entered as a "small worker" in 1778 and in 1785 as a buckle maker. In 1790 his mark is shown in an oval punch with crimped edges and in 1797 he entered into partnership with William Fearn. He died in 1824.

Meanwhile William Eaton (1) entered his WE mark as a buckle maker in 1781, 1784, 1786 and 1801. Both Eaton's and Eley's marks are plain WE without a stop or pellet between the letters.

William Eaton (2) entered his first mark in 1813 as a plate worker. The W and E have a pellet between them. He entered a mark in 1824 with a stop between the W and the E and then a further mark in 1825 with neither stop nor pellet.

William Eley (2) had meanwhile succeeded his father in the partnership with William Fearn and then entered into a short-lived partnership with his brothers Charles and Henry. He set up on his own in 1825 when his mark is shown as a script WE. This became a plain WE in June 1826 and then in December 1826 he entered a new mark in which the W and E are sloping. I believe, though, that he may have continued to use the script WE.

So to summarise:

WE 1778 to 1780: William Eley (1)

WE 1781 to 1789: William Eley (1) or William Eaton (1)

WE 1790 to 1812: William Eaton (1)

W.E 1813 to 1824: William Eaton (2)

WE 1825: William Eaton (2)

WE 1826: probably William Eaton (2), but possibly William Eley (2)

WE 1827 to 1828: William Eaton (2)

OK so far? Unfortunately there is a further complication. Jackson's shows a W.E mark for a William Elliott, entered in 1813; and I have also seen a WE attributed to William Edwards who is mentioned by neither Jackson's nor Fallon.

Phil

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Leo Passant

Posts: 24
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 01-26-2006 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leo Passant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To quote Wallace; "Good grief!" I had hoped someone might reply with a succinct answer, but that is nothing short of amazing! Thank you PhilO.
I'm still no further towards deciphering who's who, but at least I know some of the why fors.

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 01-26-2006 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How knowledgeable are the dealers in question? Fallon is very thorough for the included makers, but is not comprehensive. If you look in Grimwade, which has many more, there are no less than eight silversmiths listed with these initials in this time period! If there is confusion between these two, it is always possible that a piece attributed to one of these two in error could actually be by one of the others.

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Clive E Taylor

Posts: 450
Registered: Jul 2000

iconnumber posted 01-26-2006 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clive E Taylor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a buckle collector the plain WE mark is a very common problem. I would note that in my view Fallon and Jackson are not nearly as reliable as Grimwade. The oval serrated mark is given by Grimwade as Wllliam Eley (1) 1790 and 1795 marks in the Bucklemaker section.He also gives the same mark as No 3871 , with a picturegram , in the unregisterd marks section for William Eley.This one is thus no problem
Generally William Eaton and William Eley buckles can usually be differentiated by the method of manufacture - Eley tended to use pressing and Eaton casting. Also Eley tended to use Eley patent chapes - his patent - and a chape marked Eley Patent with WE mark is generally ascribed to him.
For the other WE plain marks usually the non- coterminal dates will often sort them out.

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Leo Passant

Posts: 24
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 01-26-2006 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leo Passant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for your contributions. The truth is slowly unravelling. One really needs to observe the date letters to make anything of the confusion, but even then, there are still some overlapping dates.
I have taken the liberty of modifying PhilO's timeline, but please feel free to contradict or amend.

WE 1778 to 1780: William Eley I.
WE entered by William Eaton I in 1781, 1784, 1786 and 1801.
WE (cusped) entered by William Eley I in 1790 and again in 1795 and used until 1797 when he entered into partnership with William Fearn. William Eley I died in 1824.
WE 1790 to 1812: William Eaton I.
W∙E (pellet) entered by William Elliott in 1813.
W∙E (pellet) entered by William Eaton II in 1813.
W.E entered by William Eaton II in 1824.
WE entered by William Eaton II in 1825.
WE (script) entered by William Eley II in 1825.
WE entered by William Eley II in June 1826.
WE entered by William Eley II in December 1826.
WE (cusped) entered by William Eaton II in 1828 with several similar marks being entered until 1840.

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