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 Shiebler-Gorham Manufacturing Company
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| Author | Topic: Shiebler-Gorham Manufacturing Company |
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Vi Posts: 17 |
posted 10-09-1999 11:36 PM
  
[01-0047] I recently saw a really great match safe that featured the Shiebler Medallion pattern. There is no question about the identification. It is in the Medallion Book. The piece has what appears to be a legitimate Shiebler hallmark AND a 3 digit number and words GORHAM MANUFACTURING COMPANY. It is reasonable to believe it was made by Gorham after Shiebler dyes, marks etc. purchased. Why would it say Gorham Manufacturing Company though instead of normal Gorham sterling marks?
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hello Posts: 200 |
posted 03-10-2006 08:59 PM
Gorham purchased shiebler when they went bankrunpt, and some flatware patterns were known to be continued so I guess it's possible. [This message has been edited by hello (edited 03-10-2006).] IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 03-10-2006 10:20 PM
Did it also say 'sterling'? Usually the Gorham Manufacturing Mark is on plate. One possible explanation is that the Shiebler mark is integral to the die and will appear there. And that Gorham, under its marketing agreements with its retailers, could supply only silver marked Gorham. We have seen here Durgin marked pieces that had the Gorham mark added. Do you have a picture? Sounds like a great piece. IP: Logged |
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hello Posts: 200 |
posted 03-11-2006 06:17 AM
This is an old post Dale, I was searching through old posts and figured it might be worth bringing up again. What happened to shiebler's stock when gorham bought them? Maybe they kept some, and sold some off? IP: Logged |
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Bob and Carol Carnighan Posts: 63 |
posted 03-11-2006 08:21 AM
The conventional wisdom is that at the Shiebler bankrupcy the presses were sold to Gorham. All flatware dies except American Beauty were bought by Gorham and promptly destroyed. Mauser bought the American Beauty dies and continued production for an unknown period of time. Elsewhere in this forum we have claimed that Mauser introduced new pieces in AB and marked them both Shiebler and Mauser. We would love to see an image of Vi Walker's piece. While we have never seen both Gorham and Shiebler marks together, it is possible that Gorham retailed Shiebler pieces. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 03-11-2006 02:39 PM
Thank you for this information Bob and Carol. One question that I have is what purpose would be served by destroying the dies? The dies were made and usable, they were not junk. The costs were sunk, it was like getting them for free. Since at that time, silver makers had a long time horizon, there was the possibility of future orders. Which would be profitable. Not to mention, this would give Gorham the opportunity to establish a relationship with Shiebler's network of retailers. With the expectation that some would gradually pick up the Gorham lines. With both Durgin and Alvin, Gorham did work this way. Why was Shiebler treated differently? From a business perspective, and from a brand name management view, this makes absolutely no sense. Businesses almost never destroy assetts deliberatively. Very curious. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-11-2006 07:39 PM
I heard that when a certain co. bought Gorham they wanted to get it out of the old building and sell that as one asset. The tools and dies that were deemed extra to the mediate plans (and by the by could not fit any where for shear bulk) were not just tossed but cut up and tossed. Forty foot dumpsters. The reason given was the Co. did not want to keep them but also did not want anyone ever producing "Gorham" I might understand the dies from a bone headed Co., but tools, purpose made in the factory, stakes, mandrils, shears, hammers, all beautiful? What a waste. The dies were more than that, a, a, I can't say it in a family forum. I went through a similar time in the mid 80's with a certain Watch Co., it had gone bankrupt in the 50's and the building was sold to a real estate firm. I rented 1200sq.ft. 0n the 4th floor and got to watch first hand the second bankruptcy. The deal after it came out of court was that they owed back rent for the1/2 of the five city block long building they had been in. The landlord gave them three months to consolidate down to 1/5th of the building. There was so much tooling and machinery that they were overwhelmed and at a certain point the 40 footers were going out every day. In this case they were more relaxed and we were allowed to drag some stuff away and pick the dumpsters. Trouble was I could not spend enough time checking for the treasures they tossed. IP: Logged |
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Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 03-11-2006 08:36 PM
"Gorham Manufacturing Company" was Gorham's retail mark. Without being able to see the piece I would tend to concur with Bob and Carol Carnighan that the piece was possibly retailed by Gorham. I'd even go a little further and say probably. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 06-24-2010 07:12 AM
wessex96 posted 06-24-2010 05:44 AM in the New Members' Forum Shiebler-Gorham: quote: IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 06-24-2010 03:01 PM
The Greenleaf & Crosby Sunny South/Johnny Griffin spoon and the other pieces they produced with the same likeness were extremely popular for many years; supposedly the image represented the Jacksonville Evening Telegram newsboy who worked outside their store in the early 1890s. A number of other "Johnny/Johnnie Griffin" items by numerous manufacturers were made well into the 20th century. Greenleaf & Crosby souvenir designs were often exclusive to their stores, some designed by Crosby, as well as silver designs done for them by, among others, William C. Codman of Gorham and Gilbert L. Crowell, Jr. of Dominick & Haff. Haven't found a patent for this spoon, though if I recall correctly, they did claim to hold a patent for the design. The spoon shown would have a fairly narrow dating window - the Palm Beach Inn opened in 1896, Greenleaf & Crosby opened their branch there in 1900, the name was changed to The Breakers in 1901 (rebuilt hotel reopened in 1904 under the Breakers name); so believe it would be safe to assume that both companies manufactured the design at some point, since this one should date well before Shiebler's 1908 filing for bankruptcy. ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 04-07-2012 07:00 PM
Reviving this old thread to say that I just noticed that a little paper knife I've had for years is marked with Shiebler's winged S (with the S backwards), STERLING, GORHAM M'F'G Co, and the number 2566. (The 2 is slightly crooked, so it might be 2 566, if that makes a difference.) This paper knife is in one of the motifs of the SO161 multi motif pattern. I'll post photos of the marks when the sun comes back. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-07-2012 07:37 PM
Polly, Is it one of the a - k variations or is it something else? IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 04-07-2012 08:13 PM
Yes, it's one of the A-K. Idiotically, I don't have the Book of Silver (must remedy that!), so I can't tell you which. It's the paper knife in this (old, bad) photo: I'll take a better photo tomorrow, as well as a photo of the marks. I was looking at it earlier because I just found three more of the little coffee spoons in the same multi motif pattern, but without Shiebler's mark. They're marked STERLING and THEODORE B. STARR--the retailer, I presume. I was wondering why they didn't have Shiebler's mark, so I studied the backs of all the other stuff I have in that pattern: a bunch of coffees, and the stuff in the photo above: the citrus spoons, the paper knife, and the (you'll never believe it! me????) sugar tongs. Everything else is marked with Shiebler's winged S, sometimes with the S reversed, and occasionally a retailer. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-07-2012 11:33 PM
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 04-08-2012 01:37 PM
Thank you, Scott. I took some photos. Here's the paper knife, with two coffee spoons, one with the Shiebler mark and one without. The one with the gold washed bowl is the one without the Shiebler mark. Here are the marks on the knife: And here are the marks on the spoons: Sorry that last photos isn't so great. The one with the Shiebler mark also says H.C. WARD & Co. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 04-08-2012 01:42 PM
Is the general feeling that Gorham retailed the knife, but did not manufacture it? And that the knife was manufactured by Shiebler and sold by Gorham before Shiebler's bankruptcy? And what about the spoon that lacks Shiebler's mark? Why would that be? IP: Logged |
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wessex96 Posts: 56 |
posted 04-08-2012 06:03 PM
Re. the Jimmy Griffin spoon above, just to clarify, the image shown is of the Shiebler spoon. The bowl of the Gorham equivalent spoon does not have the 'Palm Beach Inn, Florida' engraving. Ian IP: Logged |
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nutmegr Posts: 58 |
posted 04-11-2012 07:54 PM
I'm just curious. Is it common to find the S reversed within the Shiebler mark? I wondered if it is possible for that mark to have been used after its purchase by Gorham, much as more modern reissues of Whiting patterns used a reverse image of the Whiting mark. _____________ Lisa IP: Logged |
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wessex96 Posts: 56 |
posted 06-09-2022 01:16 PM
I wonder if (in the intervening years!) there has been anyone who has been able to verify, or otherwise, nutmegr's suggestion about the reason for the reversed Shiebler 'S'... IP: Logged |
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