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What in the world is this????

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Author	Topic: What in the world is this????
Louise Posts: 22 Registered: May 2001	posted 04-18-2002 04:39 PM [01-0640] Hello all, I have been trying to find out what this thing could be for sometime, with no luck. I have three of them. They are marked with a patent as well as (Sheffield) English sterling for 1906-07. Each one is triangular in shape with applied leaf and grape designs. The back has a clip of some kind. Tried it on plates, it fit somewhat but not perfectly. They have me completely perplexed. I have pictures, but unfortunately I use geocities. Scott could you please post them for me? Drop me an email and I will forward them on to you. Thanks! IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 04-18-2002 09:12 PM Could they be place card holders? IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 04-18-2002 09:40 PM IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 04-18-2002 09:53 PM Guess they're not place card holders. What are the dimensions? IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 04-18-2002 09:59 PM They're ship-board ash trays, designed to hook into the table cloth and not slip; from the days when smoking was considered socially acceptable. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 04-18-2002 10:13 PM We have 4 Walker and Hall "whatzits" for which we haven't identified the purpose. They are marked similarly, but the numbers are different. The "clip" is identical but that is where the similarity ends. They were also sold as menu/card holders but we have always been pretty sure this was not what they were for. We suspect the four "whatzits"" we have are a clip-on base to something. WEV may be correct about your item but ours are certainly not ashtrays. Any insight would be appreciated. We will try to post a photo of our "whatzits" over the next few days (when time permits). IP: Logged
Louise Posts: 22 Registered: May 2001	posted 04-20-2002 01:15 PM Hi Everyone, Looks like the mystery contunues. My things are definately not ashtrays, but then the question is what do they do? One of them is broken and has been repaired to work with the same clip mechanism, so obviously they were of great use to someone. Since the repair is soldered on in the same manor as the original. Size is about 2 1/2 inches on each side of the triangle. Scott, do yours have the same border design? IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 04-20-2002 01:25 PM The design is different. We should be able to post a photo Monday or Tuesday. IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 04-21-2002 04:59 PM Didn't they make clips like these to hold table cloths on tables on board ship. Anyone having been on board ship knows how quickly things take flight, and whether or not these are for the purpose of holding table cloths or not, I would think that Table cloth clips would be of great use... "Smaug" IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 04-23-2002 07:59 PM Here are the photos. So what do you think they are? IP: Logged
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 Registered: Apr 93	posted 04-23-2002 09:55 PM FYI. The dimensions on the pieces that Scott posted are 3 3/4 inches wide, 2.5 inches long, and about 2 inches high. Not knowing what these are makes it tough to figure out which of the dimensions is width and length. Hope some Anglophile can help us all out here and tell us what these things are. IP: Logged
Louise Posts: 22 Registered: May 2001	posted 04-24-2002 11:21 PM Hi All, Looks like the exact same design on the clips, also the dimensions are fairly close. Definately not ash trays. But who know what they are??? I tried to find a silver dealer in England for help, but so far no answers. I will let you know if something new comes in. Louise IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 06-08-2005 03:18 PM Hi! Could they possibly be napkin holders? Jersey IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 06-08-2005 03:47 PM I don't see how but anything is possible. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 06-08-2005 05:48 PM Scott, If you do a search for Victorian silver napkin clip, you will find several types and some seem similar to the one on this post. See if you agree. I don't know if sending the site URL is allowed, if so & you can't find it I'll get it for you. Thanks for listening! Jersey IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 06-08-2005 06:19 PM Doing a search for "Victorian silver napkin clip" or victorian silver "napkin clip" produces all sorts of things with all the usual "napkin clips" and alleged "napkin clips". Nothing even remotely close to the above. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 06-09-2005 12:57 AM Could these have been used as markers in a game? To be clipped onto wires to show progress. Or to hold cards, like playing cards. My own guess is that they are game related. Something that rarely if ever appears in silver, more likely seen in plastic or ivory. Perhaps to hold chips on the side of a game box. Just speculating. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 06-09-2005 12:59 AM There is some card game where each person gets cards but can only look at the top 4 or so. The rest remain face down on the table. This could have held the cards down, and provided a place to put chips or coins for betting. Is it Faro? IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 06-09-2005 07:43 AM Dale, interesting idea but they are more substantial then they need to be if that was the intent. I still don't know what they are. My best guess is that they were detachable "feet"/"supports" for something. I would think the firm and springy part was inserted into the base of something (four corners). The springy part locked them into place and con-caved base made things steady. IP: Logged
akgdc Posts: 289 Registered: Sep 2001	posted 06-09-2005 09:01 AM What a puzzle. If these were "feet," as Scott suggests, then the embossed decoration and monograms on Louise's examples would be face-down, which seems quite unlikely. There have been two Walker & Hall catalogs sold on eBay recently; if you search "walker hall catalog" in the completed listings, you will find them. One appears to date from the late 19th century and the other from the early 20th. The earlier one covers only sterling; the later one includes both silverplate and sterling. Perhaps if you contact the winning bidders they will be kind enough to share information. Whatever these were, they appear to have been a Walker & Hall specialty. IP: Logged
blakstone Posts: 493 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 06-09-2005 11:12 AM I agree with akgdc; the decorated surface would logically be the visible one while being used. It occurs to me that the angle of the clip indicates that whatever it attached to was itself at an angle in order for the thing to sit level. I'm thinking they were meant to clip onto a plate or saucer, maybe for a butter pat, teabag or some such. Just a thought. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 06-09-2005 11:27 AM Another suggestion. These are meant to clip onto a bowl. They are then used to hang grapes, to arrange them artfully. I still like the card idea. Very heavy things would lend importance to the game. And allow playing outdoors in windy weather. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 06-09-2005 01:56 PM Try putting a hand of cards in one of these, and then holding it so the decorated surface faces away from you. Just a thought. IP: Logged
salmoned Posts: 336 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 06-09-2005 03:50 PM If used to hang grapes, I would expect a grape theme in the design. Since we're getting far-fetched, how about a soap holder, which attaches to the side of the lavatory basin in your bedroom? The prongs could provide a stop on a side handle of the basin. No, that's the last thing the 'dirty' British would consider useful! [This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 06-11-2005).] IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 07-01-2005 08:09 AM I still think they may be used to hold the table cloth on the table in a strong breeze... on shipboard, at the beach, etc... "Smaug" IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 12-04-2005 06:22 PM Hi again! Could they be menu holders? Jersey IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 12-04-2005 06:40 PM Pretty sure they aren't but I suppose a creative mind could. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 12-04-2005 08:03 PM Hi Scott! That kind of mind I do have! Make whatever you have work for you! Jersey IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 12-14-2005 08:14 AM via email, Raf Steel Dec 14, 2005 7:57 AM: quote: Only a guess: the could be used to put on the side of a plate when eating fish, you can then put the fishbones aside. They still exist today in white metal but of a slightly different form. They have to have a shallow bowl though. A different use: for putting small biscuits or cakes on, when attached to a saucer of a tea or coffecup. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 06-07-2008 04:46 PM Scott! I think I've got it! It's a biscuit or tea cake holder that clips onto the side of the saucer. Or for a used tea bag? Jersey IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 05-16-2016 01:19 PM Raf & Jersey, Its taken a few years but I am now on-board for clipping it to a plate or saucer. There is a modern device "Stainless Steel Clip On Condiment Tray Circa 1970s Sauces Dips Fish Bones": Somewhere else on the Internet: quote: Walker & Hall, set of six electroplated fish bone side dishes, circa 1902, England, of triangular outline with die stamped leaf and scroll border, stamped with Walker & Hall and flag trade mark, ‘Sheffield England’, ‘Patent’, ‘Sheffield Plate Old Style’ and the numbers 51211 and 33, also the upper case Sigma mark dating it to circa 1902, all to the curved arm beneath, dish 10cm long These attach to the side of a dinner plate for unwanted fish bones or such inedible detritus. IP: Logged
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 Registered: Apr 93	posted 05-17-2016 05:58 AM Wow, this was quite the stumper but it looks like after 14 years, we finally have the answer. Hooray! IP: Logged
asheland Posts: 935 Registered: Nov 2003	posted 05-17-2016 10:23 AM Very cool! IP: Logged

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