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Author	Topic: Identifying marks
Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 Registered: May 2003	posted 06-04-2003 12:51 AM Can anyone please help me with four teaspoons. They have three marks on the stem near to the bowl. First, in an oval, the profile of a bearded man flanked by the numbers 5 and 7. There is a dot under the five. Second, in a sort of flattened oval nother head in profile, also a bearded man, I think. Beneath his neck is the number 2. Third, a diamond with the initials V L. In each corner of the diamond is a dot. Knowing when and where will hopefully help with the second problem: small marks on the front of the spoons' stems, about 1 cm up from the bowl. The mark on each is well worn, but seems to be different. These marks are certainly not letters or numbers that I can recognise. Any ideas on these marks? I've tried scanning these, but will little result so far. I'll keep trying. IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 06-04-2003 10:55 AM The spoon is .800 fine made in the Nord (north) region of France around Lille from 1819-38. The marks on the front are probably just counter marks, "bigorne" or anvil marks,if they are exactly on the opposite side of the other marks. The counter mark was a method of security from fakes. I am not sure I could find the maker unless there is something betweel the V & L Maurice IP: Logged
doobees Posts: 277 Registered: Jan 2003	posted 06-04-2003 07:35 PM Do the countermarks look like bugs? The bands of the French bigornes are made up of bands of bugs either in profile for Paris or as seen from above for the Departments... like ant lookin' things. Amazing to see for the first time! ------------------ Suzanne D IP: Logged
Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 Registered: May 2003	posted 06-05-2003 12:28 PM Many thanks to Labarbedor and Suzanne. I spend all my time trying to keep ants out of the sugar, and now you tell me they've got into the silver!!!! Yes, the front marks do occur directly behind the first mark. Here, I hope, are two scans: Are they bigornes? They don't really look like the bugs I get down my way. IP: Logged
doobees Posts: 277 Registered: Jan 2003	posted 06-05-2003 07:18 PM They don't look like my French "bug" bigornes which were put into use in 1838... (seriously - they'd have looked like ants and they'd differ from band to band by the placement of their little legs or antennae.) Maurice, would these be just anvil marks as countermarks? ------------------ Suzanne D IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 06-06-2003 11:29 AM They are the regular bug countermarks, they are just rubbed a bit. Most of the time you don't really make out bugs that well just an foot here and an antena there. It they are worn you just get what looks like geometry. Maurice IP: Logged

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