posted 10-27-2003 05:12 PM            

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, might be found on the Antiques Road Show.

Whatever the source of information (i.e., books, magazines, TV, radio, Internet "experts", the Silver Salon Forums) it is always best to seek confirmation from more than one resource. Just make sure that the different resources aren't all quoting the same source or folklore.

posted 10-27-2003 08:17 PM            

I'm surprised at how much some of my sterling items, in my stock room, have NOT tarnished, and how much some OTHER sterling pieces have, which may be in part due to the exact content of the sterling as much as anything. And yes, sulfur does badly tarnish silver.

Propane gas leaking into a kitchen will also cause any pieces in that room to tarnish badly, and can be used as a means of finding out if you have a tiny leak in your stove. I assume natural gas would do the same, and in both cases, I assume it must be a sulfur component of the gas that does it. If I'm wrong in that, I would certainly love to find out what it is. But believe me, I know it happens, so I try to avoid keeping any silver anywhere near my kitchen, since we experience small leaks when the tank gets low. ;-D

posted 10-28-2003 12:06 PM            

The problem the plater faces is having an item that will carry the current uniformly over the item. On flatware, which tends to be one piece construction, this is not a big issue. Holloware is frequently assembled from a number of pieces. The joins are where the plater runs into issues. If something has been resoldered, there may be different solder which have slightly different conductivities resulting in a non uniform deposit.

The obvious solution is to take the item apart and plate each piece individually. But that involves dealing with old solders. And trying to resolder, which has a spefic problem: many older pieces have metal with a melting point lower than that of modern solders. And it is unknown which parts of the item have that problem and which do not. Our old friend 'white metal mounts' may have a slightly different conductivity from the main piece.

posted 10-28-2003 07:20 PM            

If the information IS incorrect, I at least got it from what should have been a reliable source.

The process of plating sterling with pure silver was not mentioned at this time, but... It one sence it makes sense, but in others it does not since it would increase the cost. I do know that Stieff did not do so and the process of cleaning silver was something we did regularly in the store. We used a dip TSP (got it right this time) in an aluminum bucket of hot water and then hand-dried with soft cloths. The pieces were done often enough to just require a dip to remove the light tarnish that occurred.

As for other forms of finishing that might prevent the tarnish, the only thing I know of is the "varnish" finish some cheap manufacturers put on to try to keep it out. Unfortunately, I've always found that on silverplate and usually the pieces are badly mottled with tarnish in spots where the "varnish" had cracked and let air in. And it is extremely hard to get rid of.

As for the market being taught to revere "sterling" over silverplate, one of the greatest things I can say is that the average person no longer seems to know the difference, if they ever did. I've bought many a piece of marked sterling in various locales in this country for no more and often less than I would pay for silverplate! Strange, but true.

Dale: Thanks for that information on plating. It is something I wish we could do more easily, as it would recoup many a piece of badly worn flatware that has an age/design value to the collectors of it but who can't afford to get it replated one piece at a time. I've seen some pieces of flatware that have been done with great success - but it requires removing the old silver to remove nicks, worn spots, etc. When replated that way, it looks like new.

posted 10-28-2003 08:58 PM            

quote:

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I'm surprised at how much some of my sterling items, in my stock room, have NOT tarnished, and how much some OTHER sterling pieces have.

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Have you checked to see if those that do not tarnish are covered with a protective lacquer? I know this was not uncommon on some 20th century silver.

Also it is not unprecedented to find high quality older silver with lacquer. For example, a Durgin 1880s serving fork and the silver applied decoration on a copper vase had both been lacquered when I purchased them.

I removed the lacquer with simple nail polish remover (acetone) and then gently hand polished the silver with a rouge cloth. It was not a fun task on the mixed metal vase.

However, I don't know if I would recommend going around de-lacquering pieces that were originally made that way and are still mint. But as the fork and vase was not originally lacquered, I did not want the finish on there anymore.

posted 10-29-2003 06:12 PM            

I feel 'touché', so let me correct and add some details to my comment re. the properties of silverplated surfaces. In the main they are based on a 1960's book on German flatware (Klein, W.: Bestecke und was dazu gehört). I do not have the book but I copied some pages relevant to what interested me at the time I had access to it (the meaning of the "90" standard for silverplating).

I remember being surprised at a statement that most solid silver flatware was being finished by plating - as it wasn't what I was focused on I did not grab that page.

The part that I do have contains a discussion of a term "Hartglanz" as it applies to plated ware. It relates that this (then) new process results in a much tougher surface with a hardness as high as "210 kp/MM2 Vickers". It also states that this process is slightly more expensive than regular plating but results in merchandise with greater resistance to abrasion. The regulation in question permits the use of the term "Hartglanz" and equivalent ones in labeling and advertising only if the main pieces can meet a Vickers Hardness test of "130 kg/mm2".

I won't attempt to understand the Vickers standard or how these numbers relate to those quoted for pure silver and various alloys (quoted in some form of Vickers as well as Brinell). So I'll just leave it that there is a process that considerably enhances the surface of plated ware and that also improves the surface of solid silver articles.

In translating the term HARTGLANZ, 'Hart' is the easy part , 'Glanz' can mean all of gloss, shine, brightness, etc. WMF on its website translate it simply as 'hardplated', to quote: "To protect the surface, all WMF pure silver ranges(!) are additionally hard silverplated." (they do mean flatware!)

So how relevant is this? I believe that whenever one company makes a usefull improvement to a product sooner rather than later others catering to the same market segment follow it. There is no reason to believe that top companies in the US or elsewhere wouldn't have adopted some variation of this improvement. With respect to solid silver, they like many European companies, may have chosen not to emphasize it in their marketing out of fear of confusing their potential clientele.

For those who are mainly interested in much older items this doesn't mean much although it can serve as a reminder that surface treatment will have varied from one maker to another specially in an earlier age when innovation didn't travel quite as fast as today.
For those who get to handle a lot of product, this may just be one little fact to consider among all the others when looking at items from the second half of the 20th century.

posted 10-29-2003 07:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Lemieux:
It looks like it took me so long to write my post that Anuh beat me to the point about flaking lacquer on silver.

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You raised some excellent points, Paul. I couldn't think of the word lacquer for all the world when I was writing my post - Flabby Brain Syndrome strikes again! ;-D

The pieces that have tarnished the least are ones that I polished myself with Simichrone, mostly from a heavily tarnished state. So I'm quite sure that there was no lacquer coating on them at that time. Other pieces which I have polished myself have retarnished and in some cases quite noticeably. So I DO see a difference in the tarnishing quality of sterling pieces. One thing I may look at the next time I go in there is if there is a discernible difference between makers. That would support my feeling that it must be, in part, a difference in the exact composition of the sterling.

posted 11-05-2003 12:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Bird-Art:

Just heard an expert , on "Antique Roadshow" say that pure Silver is like Gold--it does not tarnish . So what is commonly referred to as Silverplate? It must not be pure Silver. Every piece I have is tarnished.

[This message has been edited by T-Bird-Art (edited 10-28-2003).]

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I hesitate to add to the excellent responses from experts, but your original question seems so simple to me that I'd like to offer a simple answer. Silver tarnishes. Sterling tarnishes. Silverplate tarnishes because there is sterling/real silver applied to a base metal and being exposed to the air causes silver to tarnish. Gas heat and salt water air may be the biggest villans in the tarnish war.

In my silver shop, I don't notice much difference in how silverplated items tarnish vs sterling pieces. We carry both sterling and silverplate in approximately equal amounts

I certainly agree with Scott's Roadshow comment.