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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-29-2004 10:14 PM
[01-1450] Would anyone care to venture an opinion as to the theme and era of the following emblem on an old ladle? Perhaps a very, very old Proctor and Gamble ladle? ) The maiden appears to be holding a long cornucopia in one hand, and some type of long leafed plant in the other.
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Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 |
posted 03-29-2004 10:47 PM
What fun, literally! The girl appears to be Hilaritas, the personification of cheerfulness, rejoicing and mirth. Among her attributes are a palm and a cornucopia. She appears on a number of Roman coins c.200 A.D., for example this: The sun and moon above and below obviously represent day and night. IP: Logged |
nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-30-2004 12:05 AM
Thank you, Patrick! You have obviously nailed it as to the theme. Hilaritas - wow, sounds like a fun girl! Do you know any more of what she represents? As far as the date of manufacture, the piece is well marked (I was holding back a bit here). BUT, ... the marks don't agree!!! The town mark is a dead ringer for Augsburg, Germany, 1743-45 (acorn or the like over F, p.33 Tardy; also #249, p. 347 Wyler, p.363). But that is too early for this item, IMO. It is a celtic point Old English Pattern (okay, maybe not the right terminology for Continental pieces, but that's as close as I can describe it, though it certainly does differ from its British cognates in the details). The maker mark is CFT in a rectangle, identified in Wyler (yeah, I know, but it's better than nuttin'!) as Karl (Carl?) Ferdinand Tautenhahn, active 1781-1810 (p.347, #1030, p.364). I believe the style of the piece coincides with these dates. Finally, it is engraved (crudely) MS 1822, too late to be contemporary with manufacture, I believe, as fiddle pattern generally ruled at by that date. Any enlightenment would be well appreciated, including insight as to the significance of Hilaritas to late eighteenth century Germany. TIA!!! IP: Logged |
Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 |
posted 03-30-2004 12:50 AM
My first impressions for the date were a more formalised version of one of Alphonse Mucha's fin-de-siecle girls. Looking at it, however, it is indeed much more neo-classical and a date c.1800 would fit nicely. I've fired off a quick e-mail to the librarian of the Warburg Institute at London University. They specialise in the "elements of European thought, literature, art and institutions which derive from the ancient world" - and have a magnificent library and archive. I'll post any reply as soon as it comes. [This message has been edited by Patrick Vyvyan (edited 03-30-2004).] IP: Logged |
akgdc Posts: 289 |
posted 03-30-2004 06:18 PM
I recently bought a pair of silver tongs, unmarked but from their form obviously Central European and c. 1810-30, that have a similar medallion of a full-length Roman god (apparently Apollo) on each arm. Unfortunately, I gave the tongs as a gift to some friends without photographing them, but I'll try to borrow them back and post photos here. IP: Logged |
nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-31-2004 06:53 PM
More fun, here are some additional photos of the Hilaritas soup ladle, for any who are interested. I'm trying out the Photobucket service for the first time, so hope this works (was tapped out on Inkfrog!). Here are the hallmarks (quite small, had to go to 600 dpi to capture them, but it's a very small canvas): Here is the entire ladle (14 1/2 inches, barely fit my flatbed scanner diagonally - 75 dpi, but it's a big canvas, Photobucket says it automatically resizes large files, hope I'm not breaking the bank here):
The drop doesn't show all that clearly, but it has a raised "X" pattern embossed, with the top half (nearer to bowl rim) simple ridges, and the bottom half consisting of a raised chevron. The handle appears to be truly applied, silver soldered to the bowl, which was notched to receive it (totally amazing it hasn't come apart in 200 or so years!). The bowl is a bit strange also, being bath tub shaped (it is longer front to back than it is wide from side to side), though it has the typical German flared rim. Likewise with the handle, the Hilaritas emblem is silver soldered to the handle. If anyone would care to venture an opinion as to the manufacture date and maker (see original comments), I would be appreciative. TIA, and hope this is a funny bone tickler for those interested in offbeat continental silver! IP: Logged |
nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-31-2004 07:05 PM
Oops, forgot a couple of items. The edges of the handle are very lightly milled, like the edge of a coin. Also, thank you, Patrick, for your inquiry on my behalf, and thanks again for your original interpretation. I'm really impressed that you came up with the Hilaritas theme, seems pretty obscure on the surface. IP: Logged |
Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 |
posted 04-01-2004 09:43 AM
Here if Professor McGrath's kind reply from the Warburg Institute: "Dear Mr Vyvyan You may well be right about Hilaritas, for although she is not common as a personification (indeed the only images of it we have in our files as 'Hilaritas Publica', or in an adaptation, 'Hilaritas Pontificia' are on papal medals of the 16th and 17th centuries) she is shown here with cornucopia and palm (and sometimes others bits and pieces). The source is presumably an ancient coin, but curiously the figure of Hilartias (Publica, or Temporum) does not feature in Du Choul's Religion des anciens romains, which is the book I always go to first. There, however, you will find a coin with the motif of a sun on one side and a crescent moon with stars on the other. This one has the inscription 'Rpma' but in the context of your image it may just mean that Joy resounds to the skies, or for eternity (Aeternitas has a sun and moon on ancient coins). I see too that a coin of Faustina with Hilaritas is described in Valeriano's Hierogluphica (under cornucopia; edn 1575, 409F) I shall send her the further details that Nihontochicken has added. Here, for reference, are two coins with a personification of Pax: IP: Logged |
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 04-01-2004 01:16 PM
quote: The inscribed date and the depiction of the personification of rejoicing probably mean the ladle was presented on some joyful occasion--a birth of a child or a marriage, perhaps. IP: Logged |
nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 04-01-2004 06:54 PM
Again, wow! Thanks, Patrick, for obtaining the info from Ms. McGrath. It seems to me that the plant in the mystery girl's right hand much more resembles palm leaves as opposed to an olive branch, but that is just my unsophisticated evaluaton. Also, thank you Paul for your input. It's nice to surmise that this piece is perhaps a bit out of the ordinary, maybe not "just another soup ladle". This assuages my shock when I first got it (a long distance internet deal based on a fuzzy photo), and saw a yellow patina around the emblem and in a patch in the bowl that looked like silver plating worn off a brass base! Turned out to be a wierd tarnish (no, it was definitely not fire gilding). Speaking of which, the ladle had some typical scattered black tarnish, not a lot or very thick, that distinguished itself by proving to be the absolute toughest I have ever tried to polish away. Reminded me of Bruce Willis in "Die Hard". Is this tenacious tarnish more typical of low silver content coin alloys? Viel dank once again, of course I am extremely interested if any more info comes to light. IP: Logged |
Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 |
posted 04-02-2004 12:43 AM
I love this problem, so once more into the fray... My first impression that the plant was a palm was it's similarity to Christian iconography where the palm is widely used as a sign of a martyr. Assuming I am correct, and this is indeed Hilaritas, then the origin of the design is a Romnan coin. How and why did the silversmith choose this motif? Almost certainy he had access to a book illustrating Classical iconography/archaeology. Professor McGrath mentions two sources from the 16th Century, but the 18th Century was also a great period of classical appreciation and study (the Grand Tour etc.). Did such a book form part of the stock design repertoire of the silversmith? Or was it proposed as a specific commission with a specific meaning? Given the apparent obsurity of Hilaritas, I would favour the latter. Here I am clutching at straws, but possibly they may lead somewhere with further research: Was Nihontochicken's ladle used for drink? Or has fantasy got the better of me? IP: Logged |
nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 04-02-2004 01:44 AM
Patrick (and all) - I am certainly enjoying this (of course, with a vested interest!), and am happy you (Patrick) appear to be similarly enthused, if less financially recipient! Trying to be helpful, if ignorantly so, I imagine that it is important that the medallion/emblem is silver soldered to the handle rather than chased from the base metal. Hilaritas is unquestionably a rather thin emblem, silver soldered to the handle. This implies a lot less investment in the ladle per se (alas, sigh!). Whether or not the emblem was converted from an alternate use is then a question. I am less sure that the handle is soldered to the bowl, but, if I had to vote my life one way or the other, I would choose to say yes, well aware that, despite many a current naive description to the contrary, this is a relatively rare occurrence. Back to Hillary, though it doesn't show on the photo, she stands on a very finely "pebbled" ground (in Japanese work, it would be called "nanako", though this emblem shows much finer pebbling than most Japanese nanako, including the best (smallest), which was hand formed using a simple cup shaped punch). I am undecided whether the emblem was hand formed, cast, or pressed. I doubt the lead option the most. And it seems too fine detail for a casting (and too thin). But if a pressed item, it should be showing up everywhere (relatively speaking)! Anywho, having fun here, am all ears for any other input! IP: Logged |
nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 07-27-2004 01:59 AM
I was going through the archives, and came across this thread again, and was wondering whether you, Patrick, had heard anything more from Prof. Eliz. McGrath, or had any other thoughts yourself. If not, that's quite okay, you have already come up with much more than I had imagined possible. BTW, another very similar ladle came up for bid on Ebay, Celtic point, bathtub bowl with flared rim, and engraved 1822! (But no Hiliritas alas.) I didn't snag it, and don't remember what the hallmarks may have been. But perhaps 1822 may be closer to the manufacture date than I had previously guessed. IP: Logged |
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