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 925 - always sterling??
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| Author | Topic: 925 - always sterling?? |
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 11-26-2004 06:46 PM
  
If a piece has 925 on it as a hallmark, does that automatically mean it is sterling silver. I have a really interesting gold-looking "scoop" spoon with what appears to be like stained glass inside where it's been pierced. I know it is very old. Other hallmark is "S" and what looks like a man with a hat standing with his arms at his sides. any info would be greatly appreciated!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 11-27-2004 04:48 AM
Hi Anne, From your description, your spoon sounds like gold-washed sterling with plique-a-jour enameling. If you could post pictures of the piece and the marks, it would be very helpful for identification. From the 925S mark, I would guess that it's Scandinavian, possibly you're mistaking Norwegian David Andersen's hammer & tongs mark (used 1880s-1930s) for the man w/hat and arms at sides. Cheryl
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 11-27-2004 08:05 AM
Hi - I have another piece that has similar plique-a-jour enameling - plus other enameling. It is a trinket box, and has a very difficult to see hallmark on its inside bottom and top. It looks to me like "HA" then there is something else on the bottom that is so faint I can't read it. Would you know anything about this trinket box? It was my great grandmother's and she had many fine things. It is so yellow - could it be gold?
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 11-27-2004 09:01 AM
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 11-27-2004 04:12 PM
Hi Anne, Very nice pictures and lovely pieces, you did a great job on the spoon marks, please try and get close-ups of the marks on the box. Your spoon (nut spoon/almond scoop?) is by David Andersen. The box looks like it might be Russian, but we would need to see the marks. Would guess that it's vermeil (gold plated silver) rather than solid gold. Cheryl ;o) IP: Logged |
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 11-28-2004 04:20 PM
Thanks for the info on David Andersen!! I have tried and tried to get pictures of the marks on the trinket box. They are just too darn small. But here are the best I've been able to manage. thanks to everyone for their patience while I've been learning how to post pictures. Anne IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 11-28-2004 05:39 PM
It looks like these marks are Russian. The head facing right with "84" on the right and a triangle (delta) on the left is the Moscow standard mark for 875/1000 silver; the mark was in use only from 1896 to 1908. In my only reference on the subject (Guide to Russian Silver Hallmarks , by Paul L. Paulson), I do not find the maker's mark, but then I cannot read the first letter clearly [AIA or DIA (D as in Delta)?] [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 11-28-2004).] IP: Logged |
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 11-28-2004 09:55 PM
Thank you so much for your helpful information! I TOTALLY appreciate it. IP: Logged |
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 11-28-2004 09:57 PM
I was thinking that the maker's mark was "HA" IP: Logged |
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 11-29-2004 09:26 PM
I hate to keep bothering everyone with my questions, but I looked at some online info about the 84 and woman's head mark and see that it is also the Russian marking for 21K gold. I really feel as though this box is gold and not gold-plated silver. How would I find out?? It is 3 inches in diameter and about 1 inch high and weighs 114.5 grams. I think it has a cabachon ruby in its clasp. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 12-01-2004 04:22 PM
I am 100% sure that your pieces are silver with a gold wash. Silver objects from this era and region with plique-a-jour decoration were almost always gold-washed. I see a little bit of tarnish along the rim of the box's lid; this would not happen with 21K gold. Also I feel that 21K gold would not have been used for plique-a-jour or an item such as a box. 21K gold is very soft. If you are still uncertain, take a 10x loupe and examine the box for signs of silver showing through; check especially on areas where wear would occur, such as the hinge, edges, or high points. You can always have it tested, but that would mean somehow scraping or scoring the finish to expose the base metal, and I would not recommend this. [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 12-01-2004).] IP: Logged |
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 12-01-2004 06:31 PM
THank you very much for your informative reply. Anne ------------------ IP: Logged |
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abokansas Posts: 23 |
posted 12-01-2004 11:15 PM
Okay, one more question about the silver in the trinket box.... If the silver is 875/1000, would it be considered Sterling? What is the cut-off for something to be considered Sterling? Sorry if this is a dumb question. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 12-02-2004 10:50 AM
Sterling silver only refers to silver that is 92.5% pure. Other than sterling and coin silver (which is 90.0% fine), other grades of silver, such as 800, 835, 875, 935, etc., do not have specific names. IP: Logged |
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kdlefevre Posts: 2 |
posted 01-08-2005 10:37 PM
I'm confused--what if something is marked "STERLING" but also has a number, like "336" or "126"? What does that mean? It can't be marked "Sterling" if it isn't .925 silver, right? Thanks for any advice! IP: Logged |
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adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 01-09-2005 12:10 AM
An item shouldn't be marked "sterling" if it is of lower quality (ie. below .925), but the term is sometimes used pretty freely, or with an intent to defraud. The other numbers you mention are frequently things like pattern numbers, order numbers, inventory numbers and so on. In a (very) few cases they can be traced, as for instance with Tiffany products, but mostly we'll never know... IP: Logged |
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Argent47 Posts: 67 |
posted 01-09-2005 08:57 AM
Why is it I cannot see any of the photographs?? IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-09-2005 12:18 PM
The pictures cannot be seen because they are no longer available on the poster's site. It is discourteous to withdraw pictures soon after putting them up. We prefer that posters leave their pictures as long as possible for readers to view. If they cannot be retained, a poster can request the Forum Master to transfer them to the Forum Server. Sometimes they can be restored from Forum backups, but this is not always possible. IP: Logged |
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Argent47 Posts: 67 |
posted 01-09-2005 03:12 PM
Swarter, Many thanks for your kind response. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 01-09-2005 03:53 PM
images restored IP: Logged |
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Argent47 Posts: 67 |
posted 01-09-2005 04:46 PM
Many thanks Swarter for your efforts. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-09-2005 06:03 PM
Thank Scott - he is the one who restored them. They are nice photos of interesting objects - I am glad they were not lost. IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-11-2005 11:49 AM
quote: That other number is most likely the company's model number for the product in question. Most companies had a model number for all of their non-flatware products for easy cataloging and reference. The only time I have seen a fradulent "STERLING" marking was on some very low quality Mexican jewelry. Beware of deceptive names, however: many silverplate companies marked their silver with terms like "STERLING PLATE," "STERLING INLAID," "NEVADA SILVER," etc. in order to deceive buyers. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 01-11-2005 12:27 PM
I've run across a lot of souvenir spoons by a company called U.S.Sterling that are obviously worn silverplate, yet the sellers insist that they're solid silver because they say "sterling". Rainwater shows the mark being used on spoons from the Columbian Exposition (1893) and the San Francisco Mid-Winter Exposition (1894), which would be about the right dating for the pieces I've seen.
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 01-11-2005 12:48 PM
This thread continues in the thread 925 - always sterling?? - (thread 2) IP: Logged |
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