posted 03-15-2006 10:03 PM            

From time to time I come across pieces with engraved heraldic imagery, as I'm sure does anyone who handles very much silver. I often wonder what stories those engravings may tell, thinking that perhaps they will give a glimpse as to provenance. Once or twice I've come across such an engraving, and have been successful at finding a match online with a search engine (This ends up requiring a lot of research into the relevant terminologies, per pale, per fess, etc.) An example of such a success is shown below.

These appear to be similar, if not identical, to symbols used by the Most Honorable Order of the Bath, but I was only able to come to that conclusion because of the phrases expressed in the banners ("Tria Juncta in Uno" and "Ich Dien").

More often, however, I have no luck in finding any pertinent information through simply a web search.

It seems that this issue comes up quite often. The following are all posts in which questions about crests or coats-of-arms have arisen.

• Hapsburg Napkin Ring
  
• Armorials or Crests on American Coin Silver
  
• armorial engraving on 18th c English salver
  
• 8 Crossed Arrows, griffin head on a castle

In many of these threads, knowledgeable members have recommended reference books on family crests and coats-of-arms. One which seem to be popular is Fairbairn's Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland.

As a collector of modest means, I have a hard enough time acquiring reference books on silver and its markings, so another book is hardly on my want list. However, I am beginning to believe that such a book might be a valuable addition. I'd like the opinions of others on this. Do other silver collectors feel that such a reference is a must-have?

Right now I'm looking into some heraldic imagery found engraved on the pieces in a tea and coffee service.

I have not fully studied the heraldry lexicon, so an amateur's attempt at description follows:

The crest is a stag trippant (a stag with the right leg raised, much like a lion passant)on a torse (or twisted rope). The shield is divided per fess dancetty flory (divided by a horizontal zig-zag line, the points of which are surmounted by flours-de-lis).

I am very tempted to track down the origins of these symbols, whether I only need to check the necessary books out at a library, or buy the books myself. Although I don't have any particular interest in genealogy or heraldry, the subject seems to come up often enough in my exploration of silver, that perhaps the effort or expense would pay off eventually.

posted 03-16-2006 12:30 AM            

60% of my reference books are used and were inexpensive - it is definitely worth taking the time to search the web bookstores, used bookstores and auctions for them. Sometimes if you can be patient that can save a lot of money too. There's always more than one copy of a reference book out there - if one is too expensive, wait for the next one to show up.
(I am a bibliophile as well as a silver collector and obsessive about both.)

Regarding Fairbairn's specifically, I personally find it quite interesting, even just looking through without researching anything. It can fill in another piece of the puzzle regarding a newly aquired bit of silver. However, it does take time to use it as you must search through all of the plates until you find the particular one you have in hand - and many crests are similar. Then you can cross reference it to the family names who used it. Fairbairn's also has a section on mottos, which is quite helpful and easier to use than the plates of the crests.

posted 03-16-2006 01:12 PM            

• One that didn't get away

  and

• Lord Bertie's Mug

posted 03-16-2006 08:28 PM            

Feniangirl, you say

quote:

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The engravings of a complete coat of arms such as in your photos, would be impossible to research in Fairbairn's...

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You seem to imply that without mottos (which unfortunately are not present), I would have no success in tracing the origins of these images. If that's the case, should I abandon Fairbairn's or another reference on heraldry as a possible solution? With only the shield and crest, is it possible to do any fruitful research?

Dale:

quote:

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What I have not seen much of are heraldry outside the British world books.

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The thread Armorials or Crests on American Coin Silver offers several titles which ostensibly deal with heraldry of American families (although I imagine that most if not all of them are British in origin). Those titles are:

• Colonial Families of the United States of America, edited by George Norbury Mackenzie
• Matthews' American Amoury and Blue Book, edited and published by John Matthews
• Heraldry in America by Eugene Zieber

If you meant particularly heraldry as used by persons or families elsewhere in Europe, I can't help there.

posted 03-18-2006 01:15 PM            

quote:

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In many of these threads, knowledgeable members have recommended reference books on family crests and coats-of-arms. One which seem to be popular is Fairbairn's Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland.

As a collector of modest means, I have a hard enough time acquiring reference books on silver and its markings, so another book is hardly on my want list. However, I am beginning to believe that such a book might be a valuable addition.

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Fairbairn's has been reprinted many times. It is the most readily available comprehensive and authoritative source of information on English crests and their owners. Used copies of reprint editions are plentiful and can be relatively inexpensive.

There are currently 153 listings (some duplicated) of Fairbairn's Crests on the used book search engine AddAll.com (they have another one for new books). Prices run from under $20 to nearly $1,000 - obviously the many reprint copies are cheaper than, and just as usable as, the original editions, which would be of interest only to book collectors. Do a title search under Fairbairn's Crests and then refine the sort by price.

posted 03-28-2006 12:20 AM            

That is a very interesting observation about the work that it takes to find information when a data base does not exist that can be key word searched. Key word or phrase searching has revolutionized patent searching particularly for searches of technical journals, both foreign and domestic.

Key word searching can bring it own problems. For example I have searched a popular internet auction site for coin silver with the key word "southern" only to find an item for sale with no visible connection to the south. On a couple of such hits I did a control F and searched the individual document for the word southern. The word was there, however it was typed into the document with same color as the background and was invisible to the eye.

posted 03-29-2006 05:17 PM            

quote:

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Key word searching can bring it own problems.

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----------------------------
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posted 03-30-2006 12:31 PM            

Be that as it may, it is what it is, and it is the most complete work available.

posted 04-02-2006 05:13 AM            

quote:

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The Components of an Heraldic Achievement (a site primarily for writers).

THE SLUGHORN (or slogan or cri de guerre) is the warcry used by the clan or family to which the owner of the achievement belongs. Its appearance above the crest is typical of Scottish heraldry, but it will be found elsewhere. Scottish achievements with no warcry usually feature the motto here. In England, where the motto is traditionally placed beneath the shield, a second motto may appear above the crest. Warcries are short, meaningful and easy to distinguish aurally. Mottoes can be relatively long.

THE CREST is not a coat of arms. Nor is it an heraldic achievement. Nor is it a badge. The Crest is the device placed on top of the helmet. Here it is a forearm grasping a spur and, as such, could have been modelled for use in a mediaeval tournament. The invention of crests (mainly during the last three centuries) that could never have been fastened to the top of a helmet is a decadent development that has no place in classical heraldry. Sometimes more than one crest may be displayed, but this is much more frequent in continental heraldry than in the heraldry of the British Isles.

THE WREATH around the base of the crest secures it to the helmet and is depicted as six twists of cloth in the principal colours, usually, of the arms displayed on the shield (the livery colours). Sometimes a coronet (a crest coronet) is used instead of a wreath, and the crest then rises out of the centre of the coronet.

THE MANTLING (or lambrequin) is the representation of the cloth cape that hangs from the wreath and down the wearer's back to protect it from the sun's heat. Early heraldic illustrations depicted the mantling whole and untorn, but artists subsequently painted it as having been slashed in battle, and during the worst periods of grotesque heraldry it resembled seaweed. In this illustration it is highly stylised in a typical late-19th century fashion, but is not quite as ugly as is some of that period. The colours of the mantling are those of the wreath.

THE HELM (the helmet) is used to indicate rank - that of a peer, as here, having a golden grille. Much 18th and 19th century heraldry produced helmets which would have been quite impossible to wear. The one shown here copies the style of the late-19th century and is not too bad an example, but a moment's examination reveals that its grille is very far out of proportion.

THE CORONET of a peer is always displayed below the helm. In British heraldry only a peer has a coronet, but in continental Europe, where the definition of a peer is different and where nobles who are not peers may have coronets, the customs vary.

THE SUPPORTERS have two origins attributed to them. It is said that they were first used to carry a peer's shield at a tournament, and were men disguised as animals. It is said also that when a shield had been carved onto a signet, the space around it was used to depict fabulous animals. In the British Isles supporters may be used only by peers and knights of the most senior rank (Knights Grand Cross and Knights of the Garter and of the Thistle) plus, in Scotland, certain heads of considerable families who are not peers.

THE SHIELD is the principal component of the heraldic achievement. It bears the arms - the same device or group of devices that was once borne on a knight's surcoat (the cloth coat that covered his armour) and originated the phrase "coat of arms". If the achievement is that of a lady, a lozenge (a diamond shape) is used instead of a shield.

THE MOUNT or COMPARTMENT is the feature on which a shield may rest. It is almost always used only with Supporters.

THE MOTTO may appear on the Mount or on a scroll. (In tenebris lux - light in the darkness - is a motto often associated with the Scott family.)

OTHER FEATURES may be incorporated into an achievement. These may include the insignia of orders of chivalry, the symbols of ancient offices, badges, and weapons and banners. But the components discussed above are those that will be met most often in the achievement of a peer.

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However, since Fairbairn's does list many mottoes, you may find that part useful as it could narrow your search by pointing you in a specific direction and if you have other pieces of silver that are simply crested you should find it helpful.

(Swarter's examples of The One That Didn't Get Away and Lord Bertie are crests; whereas, the engravings on your pieces seem to be Heraldic Achievements, although the later, with the stag trippant, appears incomplete).

Perhaps you might even be able to get some answers from the above mentioned site regarding a more direct way to research the heraldic engravings on your silver. Heraldry is very complex as you seem to already be aware and many times it will involve a great deal of time and effort to research. Personally, I feel it worth the time investment because it adds an entirely different dimension to the particular silver item on which the engraving is.

posted 04-02-2006 02:47 PM            

I quote from Heraldry, its custome, rules, and styles:

quote:

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The term 'coat of arms' signifies an armorial achievement which consists of a shield with helm, crest and mantling. It is derived from the surcoat of a knight (worn over his armor), on which the charges of his shield were repeated. The word crest designates the figure which is placed on the helm.

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The uppermost arms (in the top photo) are those of a married couple, characterized as follows (right or dexter and left or sinister are mirror images):

quote:

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Arms of a married knight and his wife. Since the wife of a knight does not share the emblems of his order, two shields are employed, the husband's on the dexter and the combined arms of husband and wife on the sinister. His shield is surrounded by the circlet of his order, while the other shield is surrounded by a decorative wreath, to keep the balance of the design. His crested helm is placed above the two shields. If there were supporters,they would stand on either side of the achievement.

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I cannot see that there is a crest atop the helmet in the top photo, but otherwise the description seems to fit perfectly, and matches closely the described illustration in the book. TRIA JUNCTO IN UNO in the circlet surrounding the husbands shield is his motto.

To reiterate, Fairbairn's is intended only to include crests, and not arms, which must be researched elsewhere. Crests are the most frequently encountered heraldic symbols on silver, and for these Fairbairn's is useful. Arms are encountered only on surfaces large enough to accommodate them, usually tankards, platters, and other larger pieces.

posted 04-02-2006 04:27 PM            

Thanks for the first-class information.

Feniangirl,

I see now what you mean when you say that Fairbairn's would offer only incomplete information about a full coat-of-arms or heraldic achievement. Thanks for the link, too.

Swarter,

Your offerings from the other heraldry reference are very illuminating. If you let us know where we can find the reference, I'll be sure to look out for it as well.

posted 04-02-2006 04:54 PM            

There are a great many books on heraldry, most of which deal exclusively with British tradition.

posted 04-02-2006 06:46 PM            

quote:

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What I have not seen much of are heraldry outside the British world books.

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Another book that covers a broader spectrum than most is Heraldry Sources, Symbols and Meaning by Ottfried Neubecker, 1977 (MacDonald and James) and 1988 (Black Cat imprint of MacDonald & Co.) A later edition is by Tiger Books, International (London), 1997.

There is a wealth of background information in this book, but this is not the one you would want to use if you want to interpret the arms on a piece of silver - for that, von Folborth's book is preferable. This one is good if you want to know more about the practice of Heraldry, and how it arose. These two may not be the only - or even the best - ones available, but I have them and find them useful.

posted 04-02-2006 07:12 PM            

quote:

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I Googled it and can find nothing. Any suggestions?

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Forget Google (dare I say it?). Try AddAll - there are currently 99 listings for von Volborth's book, and 79 for Neubecker's. These are from a variety of booksellers, so prices are all over the place - caveat emptor.

There are also 157 listings for Fairbairn's Crests, versus 153 when I recommended going there for it two weeks ago. Doesn't sound like anybody bothered to take me up on it!