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General Silver Forum Unusual Silver question ...true or Urban Legend?
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Author | Topic: Unusual Silver question ...true or Urban Legend? |
carlaz Posts: 239 |
posted 10-26-2006 12:41 PM
I was just asked a very unusual silver question that I had no idea what the correct answer was and if indeed the 'fact' was just not an urban legend. From what I have been told, this story appeared as part of a segment for the CBS Sunday Morning show recently. An interesting silver fact was stated during the segment that a former President of the United Stated limited production of the number of flatware pieces to a sterling pattern to no more than 55 due to the deficit in silver at that time. I turn to the board for help... Is this fact true? If so, who was the President who placed a limitation on pieces types? And why? IP: Logged |
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 10-26-2006 01:23 PM
Yes - more later IP: Logged |
DB Posts: 252 |
posted 10-26-2006 01:36 PM
The masses of serving and place pieces was designed to make the consumer buy but had also a downside for the manufacturers, labor costs to cut dies, huge inventories, etc. In late 1925 under the auspices of the United States Department of Commerce, the trade suggested new standards for manufacturing and retailing flatware, which were adopted by the Bureau of Standards as "Simplified Practice Recommendations No.54", saying that 1. there should be a limit to flatware pieces in each pattern to 57, 2. restricted the introduction of a new pattern to one every two years and 3. that a pattern is declared "discontinued" five years after introduction. For more info on the subject, please see William P.Hood,jr,with Roslyn Berlin, Edward Wawrynek: Tiffany Silver Flatware 1845-1905, When Dining was an Art, Antique Collector's Club, Suffolk 1999, page 40. ------------------ IP: Logged |
carlaz Posts: 239 |
posted 10-26-2006 01:48 PM
I knew this website would get the answer for me...Thanks so much! I will share this will those that asked. IP: Logged |
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 10-27-2006 11:03 AM
Today , in a place setting, we routinely use three pieces, a knife, fork, and teaspoon. Manufacturers try to sell five items in a place setting, with the addition of a small fork for salad and dessert, and a spoon for soup. Many early Americans considered forks to be a European affectation until the Rockefellers, Carnegies, Morgans and others of wealth & prominence popularized forks in the 1800s. Ensuingly, flatware became so fashionable that each food seemed to have its own implement. The number of pieces in a dinner pattern grew and grew; some estimate the average size of a complete dinner pattern could have as many as 101 to 146 pieces. There were utensils for raw oysters, fried oysters, fried chicken, lemon slices, poached eggs, bonbons, nuts, buckwheat griddle cakes, pickles, berries asparagus tongs, lobster forks, cheese knife, chipped beef and etc. The large number of pieces was the result of smart marketing by the silver companies. Sometimes the companies would introduce the same piece but label it for another use. Then the manufacturers found they could easily reuse dies to combine pattern and pieces which allowed for near countless variations in handle sizes, bowl, tine, blade sizes. In 1925/6, Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover, responding to a silver shortage, ordered the Bureau of Standards to limit the number of pieces in a flatware pattern to 55. Arbiter of manners Emily Post approved of the restriction, declaring, "No rule of etiquette is of less importance than which fork we use." Elaborate silverware has been on the decline ever since. Today the sophistication of formal dinning is a lost practice as meals have became more informal. The individual meal took shape with efficiency apartment living replacing the boarding house where meals were a daily social gathering. As class separations became less, the table setting became less important as a means of distinguishing afternoon tea from lunch, or family dinner from formal entertainment dinner. Also the invention of the refrigerator and freezer made a number of special foods ordinary. With ready to eat prepackaged foods, hamburgers, sandwiches, wraps, more and more finger foods, tableware as we now know it days may be numbered. IP: Logged |
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 10-27-2006 12:35 PM
From CBS in New York, the Sunday Morning Show Oct. 15, 2006: quote: If you have never seen the CBS Sunday Morning Show we recommend it. It may be the best weekly 1.5 hour of TV. IP: Logged |
Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 10-27-2006 11:29 PM
What strikes me as truly odd about the situation regarding flatware is that while our diets have changed greatly, the silver makers still only offer the pieces from the twenties. New foods, but no new implements. For example, pasta has become for many Americans a common food rather than something in Italian restaurants. Yet there is no innovative, or even revived, implement in better flatware. The old style spaghetti server currently is made in plastic, and maybe low end stainless. There is nothing made now for serving or eating kiwi fruit, mangoes, individual casseroles, enchildas, pate, olives, ravioli, pizza, quiche etc. Antique shows abound in such items. This was always a staple of my business when I was active. The aspic server is perfect for quiche. The table crumber is perfect for enchildas and lasagna. Nothing surpasses the Ideal Olive Server, which should be in the public domain by now. When visiting a gourmet shop, I am always struck by the wide variety of new and innovative china and glass designed for modern meals. And by the complete lack of any flatware of quality and imagination. There are still loads of people who cook and serve elaborate meals. They are no longer 'housewives' but rather gourmet cooks. The gourmet cook is the market for silver today; far more than young married couple. What we see here seems to be more a failure of the imagination on the part of the silver makers than anything else. The market shifted, new catagories arose. But they clung to the old bridal registry system. Instead of an ad in Modern Bride, an ad showing a pasta server, Ideal Olive server and something to serve and eat escargot with in Gourmet would be the way to go. And sold in cooking stores not jewelry stores. It seems that when an industry ceases to innovate it dies. [This message has been edited by Dale (edited 10-27-2006).] IP: Logged |
FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 10-28-2006 10:54 AM
I agree with Dale on this. The gourmet market is where silver should be marketed. I was involved more in selling back in the mid-'90s, and we always thanked Martha Steward because there were people who would come in and buy coin and English sterling pieces just because they had seen her recommend them or use them in photo shoots. And I think serving pieces are the ideal entry point. Some people probably wouldn't warm to the idea of buying many sets of special implements, but I suspect more would be receptive to buying a few special servers -- which might then lead to more interest in the individual pieces. Among my colleagues are several who use stainless eating utensils, but have a few antique silver servers that they use regularly, even at potluck dinners. IP: Logged |
IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 10-29-2006 08:58 AM
This discussion has certainly taken an interesting turn! Dale may be on to something. For more discussion on the contemporary silver market, see Formal Silver? IP: Logged |
chase33 Posts: 362 |
posted 09-21-2008 08:29 PM
Does anyone know what the 55 (or 57) pieces were listed in the "The Simplified Practice Recommendation No. 54"? And if anyone has a copy of this recommendation, I would love to have a copy or at least be pointed in the right direction. I have tried to find it on the web but no luck so far. Thanks Robert IP: Logged |
FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 09-21-2008 10:58 PM
I believe I have seen a list with illustrated examples in the small booklet "The Story of Sterling". I do not have my copy handy so I cannot confirm this. Best, IP: Logged |
dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 09-21-2008 11:48 PM
I have that little booklet somewhere, but mine seems to have gone missing too. Chicago Silver has posted it on their site, the 60 pieces from the book are shown on a separate page. ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
ellabee Posts: 306 |
posted 09-22-2008 01:31 AM
Thanks for that pointer, Cheryl. With a maximum of 60 pieces, I'd have simplified the round soup spoons down to one and brought back the soup ladle and pea serving spoon -- items you'd need at almost any dinner party or buffet. In fact, the pierced serving spoon is a standard part of the modern "hostess set", no? The carving sets seem easily reducible to one -- the midsized (bird) version. (I'd keep the steak knife as a separate item among the place knives). The lemon fork has always just seemed ridiculous; it doesn't even look as if it would work as well as a more generic small serving fork. IP: Logged |
adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 09-22-2008 12:14 PM
The intention of the restrictions placed on flatware services comes across as to both to prevent the insane proliferation of implements and to reduce silver consumption. DB also makes the point "3. that a pattern is declared "discontinued" five years after introduction." I previously thought that one of the objects was to stop the rapid planned obsolescence of patterns, as many people found not long after buying flatware that it had gone out of production, and their set could no longer be matched. Thus making it mandatory to cease production after five years seems counter productive. Was a five year minimum pattern run maybe intended? IP: Logged |
Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-23-2008 12:36 AM
Actually, the old silver retailers, the jewelry stores, demanded a 25 year cycle for more expensive silver, china and crystal. Don't know about the five years. IP: Logged |
nautilusjv Posts: 253 |
posted 02-04-2010 09:53 PM
I have recently become interested in this topic in terms of the shift from a myriad of utensils for a pattern in the late 19th century to the new standards adopted in 1925. One of the thread posts mentioned that the list of 57 utensils worked out in 1925 was in The Story of Sterling and could be found at chicagosilver.com, however I checked with the site and could not find it. Does anyone know where else this list might exist? Also, in thinking about the proliferation of utensils in the 19th century, beyond it being a result of cheaper silver, a marketing strategy and a desire for social status, it also strikes me as a strangely 19th century kind of madness, in which the Western world (and here I realize that such a proliferation did not occur in Europe)desired and needed to go out and classify the world. So, perhaps the appearance of a myriad of utensils is part of this need, to secure and define each food by how and with what it was eaten. Just a thought. IP: Logged |
dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 02-05-2010 04:48 AM
Servers and Utensils ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 02-05-2010 09:20 AM
I hasten to remind people of Charle Venable's landmark book: SILVER IN AMERICA: A CENTURY OF SPLENDOR (Dallas Museum, 1994) which tells the complete story of silver between 1840 and 1940, including marketing, plated goods, and all the Gilded Age specialization of form. I am not sure what the earliest documented SETS of forks made in the US are, but certainly upper class Americans (perhaps that is only one percent of the population--think of John and Abigail Adams) used forks in Colonial America--but these were bone or ivory-handled steel cutlery. I can't imagine there are silver forks documented by American silversmiths before the 1810s or even 1820s. But here is a progression of silver ownership as I have it in my mind after thirty years as a curator. Significant silver objects were rare in Colonial America--but rare the way, say, Rolls-Royces are today. Lots of rich people had silver, but "lots" wasn't a lot. In 1750 if you had some silver spoons, you were solidly affluent. If you had a silver tankard, you were clearly a man of importance (notice I don't mention the ladies, because they were chattel and owned nothing). If you had a silver tankard AND a silver teapot, you were mighty fancy. By the end of the 18th century you would need to have a teapot, sugar and creamer to make the same status statement. Add a coffee pot to that, you had the roots of a full tea and coffee service, which would come into real existence in the 1790s--because the idea of a whole service in silver was imaginable for the first time by normally affluent people. But average Joes still didn't own any silver--that would begin slowly in the early 19th century, and then take off after the anti-foreign tarrifs were imposed in the 1840s (see Venable). Here is the progression of silver ownership for the rising middle-class in the 1800s:
Bottom line: When George Washington and George III sat down to dinner, they each got a fork, a knife and a spoon. And a teaspoon for after. All the rest is social climbing and clever marketing. The end. IP: Logged |
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 02-05-2010 09:24 AM
By the way, the only piece of silver flatware we never developed in this country, because of our Anglophilic traditions, is the sauce spoon. This is something one sees regularly in French restaurants--a sort of a teaspoon-sized piece with a flattened bowl--perfect for getting the last of the (highly fatty and blissful) sauce off the plate. I have seen them in French places in the US, and remember them routinely in France; but apparently that was one of those disgusting French habits that the Brits never took to (and hence we didn't either)--but who ever wanted to eat all the British gravy? Eeew. IP: Logged |
nautilusjv Posts: 253 |
posted 02-05-2010 06:18 PM
Thanks Cheryl for the link. I didn't realize that utensil listing was the one related to Hoover etc. I even emailed Chicago Silver directly and they did not connect that page with being connected to the Hoover Committee. I wonder if one could find The Story of Sterling secondhand, it looks like a wonderful book of its moment. Thank you Ulysses for outlining the history of flatware ownership. I really enjoyed reading your post. It wonderful how a simple (yet very complicated)thing such as what we use to eat food, leads to ever greater considerations of culture, society, economics, class etc. This is in part why I collect silver and how it goes beyond just aesthetics.
[This message has been edited by nautilusjv (edited 02-05-2010).] IP: Logged |
taloncrest Posts: 169 |
posted 02-05-2010 06:56 PM
The Story of Sterling is regularly available on that big auction site. I keep meaning to buy one, but never get around to it. IP: Logged |
dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 02-05-2010 08:21 PM
The Story of Sterling is pretty small, maybe 5"x8", 1/4" thick, believe mine (wherever it is) is stamped "Compliments of International Silver". The entire book can be read on Chicago Silver. ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 02-05-2010 09:14 PM
You can use BookFinder or AddAll to find used books. IP: Logged |
dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 10-13-2013 07:50 PM
Below is the 1926 recommended list of 57 items (55, w/o the different weights of teaspoons) for accepted stock items in sterling silver flatware patterns. 'The Story of Sterling' (1937) does not show the different weights of spoons, nor does it show #31-"Baby spoon, bent", or #54-"Serving spoon". The book does show a Child's Spoon, not numbered on the list, but noted as "same as item No. 1"; additionally, it shows a Cream Soup Spoon, Salt Spoon Individual, Salt Spoon Serving, Fish Knife, and Tea Knife (the list notes the "Child's knife" may also be listed as "tea knife"); the Butter Spreader is also shown in both hollow-handle and flat, and a Steak Steel is shown in addition to the #23-"Meat carving steel". ~Cheryl
IP: Logged |
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