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| Author | Topic: asparagus |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 03-06-2006 01:18 PM
  
[26-0943] I have followed my own advice, trying to win gardeners over to silver collecting. This project has worked out wonderfully well--for me, at least. A friend brought me a set of individual asparagus tongs from England. I grow asparagus. The variety is Jersey Knight and I really recommend it. (Okay, Jersey, no jokes, please. Sometimes asparagus is just asparagus) Anyway, the asparagus tongs are silverplate by Mappin and Webb. They were made for the Royal Mail Lines and have their seahorse logo. Although the company no longer exists, they have a great web site. What I want to know is, when would they have been used? They look 20th century modern. My impression is that individual asparagus tongs were a short lived fad. Anyone ever travel with the Royal Mail Line. Eat asparagus while on route?
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-06-2006 01:45 PM
According to Wyler, "The Book of Old Silver," asparagus tongs were introduced into England during the regin of George II (1727-60), which means they would have been in use for a very long time. I suspect that with the decline of formal dining (refer to the quite lively thread on that subject in this forum)such a specialized serving item went out of fashion in favor of more generic serving tongs. I do not know when or even if they ceased being made. Tom [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 03-06-2006).] IP: Logged |
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 03-06-2006 04:56 PM
Although asparagus tongs as serving pieces may have been around since the 18th century, I think the heyday for individual asparagus servers came later. Most of the individual servers I have come across in the marketplace have patterns that date from the late 1800's (1880's) to the early 1900's, which would match the date of your piece. IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 03-06-2006 05:34 PM
Hi rian! Love asparagus! Make sure you keep the "asparagus bettle" away. Perhaps your tongs came from one of the Ocean liners such as the Queen Elizabeth or some such. I have some and they are so much fun to eat with. I use them for other foods as well. Enjoy! IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 03-06-2006 09:21 PM
Hi Guys, Tom, Doc is right. These are only a little over 4" long, too small to be servers. I made the picture so large because I hoped the mark that appears after the words Mappin and Webb might indicate exactly when the tongs were made. I'm sort of at sea here. My few books are American. I have put in a request for a library copy of Wyler, but it hasn't turned up yet. Jersey, I'm glad you put in a good word for the asparagus tongs. Wev kind of dumped on them in another thread. Osterberg was not very enthusiastic about them in his flatware book either. My normal method of dealing with asparagus is to snap the spears like green beans, steam them lightly and serve them as a side veg with the meal. But in my enthusiasm for my present, I promised a celebratory lunch featuring whole asparagus to be eaten with asparagus tongs when the crop came in this spring. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 03-06-2006 10:27 PM
Above is a web site [gone from the internet] that has a short reference to asparagus tongs of the server type. The early tongs (1770) had flat narrow blades for holding a large number of asparagus and transferring them from a platter to ones plate. Gradually the blades widened and included perforations to allow fluid to drain away. I believe the individual asparagus tongs came along much later when large numbers of individual place pieces became in fashion. I do not believe that the individual tongs replaced the asparagus serving tongs; instead they would have been an addition to a place setting. IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 03-06-2006 11:11 PM
Hi again! How about a little Olive oil in a frying pan with a sprinkle of garlic powder or minced garlic, salt & pepper. Cook just for a couple of minutes, if that till tender, or as you like it! I'm hungry.........bye! Jersey IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 03-07-2006 08:33 AM
Thanks, Jersey, all recipes gratefully accepted. Ahwt, what a great site! I wish I were really rich! Also thanks for recommending McClinton's book on collecting 19th century American silver on the beginner's library thread. I liked that one too. IP: Logged |
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 03-07-2006 09:31 AM
ahwt is correct. This piece would have been at each place setting and used to select from a plate of asparagus as it was presented by a server; this allowed the guest, and not the server, to make the choice as to how much asparagus to take. Asparagus is a favorite of mine; I have taken to coating the stalks with good olive oil, sprinkling with sea salt and rosemary and either roasting or grilling it. Works wonders for thicker stalks. [This message has been edited by doc (edited 03-07-2006).] IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-07-2006 10:58 AM
Rian, Thanks for the update. It is always a good idea to post the dimensions of the item in a case like this. As for Wyler, you probably can find an inexpensive copy used. Tom IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 03-07-2006 01:38 PM
Mmmm I never thought of grilling. Good luck that my rosemary made it through the winter too! But doc...surely you don't expect me to allow my guests to use their individual asparagus tongs to serve themselves with asparagus! That violates the "a piece of flatware for every step in the process" rule. Look at what I found. You've seen a lot more silver than I have. Have you ever seen anything like it? It is over 9" long and very heavy 800 silver. I know that the new moon and crown place it in Germany. The other marks will be in Wylers, right? This has to be for asparagus!
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 03-07-2006 01:49 PM
I am sorry, I haven't been clear. There are two separate types of asparagus servers; the individual server placed at each setting (such as the original piece you have shown), and then the larger serving piece, such as the one you have shown, that was used to serve it from the plate. If you really want to maintain a piece of flatware for each step in the process, use the larger server to present the asparagus, and your guests can use individual tongs to take it from the larger server! IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-07-2006 02:19 PM
The mark to the right of the 800 is, I believe, the eagle of Bruckmann & Söhne of Heilbronn, founded in 1805. Your piece, however, is post 1888 when the crown and cresecent moon symbols of the united Germany came into use. I am puzzled by the other mark. Wyler is not very good on continental silver for which Tardy is better. Tom IP: Logged |
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salmoned Posts: 336 |
posted 03-07-2006 03:06 PM
Asparagus? It looks like a skinny wurst server to me - those crunchy ones!?  IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 03-07-2006 03:14 PM
As a young thing, I visited Europe with a friend whose mother was from Germany. Her grandmother told us the only polite way to eat asparagus is with your fingers. You must never cut it, she said. Instead, lift it from the thick end and lower it into your mouth. For us klutzy teenagers, this naturally led to much hilarity and sauce on the fingers, face, and tablecloth. Perhaps these tongs are meant to assist in that style of eating, serving as finger-extenders while preserving the asparagus from the indignity of knife and fork? IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 03-07-2006 03:32 PM
I also remember reading that formal service etiquette allowed/demanded that asparagus be eaten with the fingers -- unless served with a sauce, as I recall. Certainly in my home that's how we do it, although I can't usually bring myself to do that in a restaurant and submit it to the indignity of knife and fork. I've never seen an individual server like the first, although I had heard of them. I had recently a pair of a different design, shaped like hinged stalks with added loops for the fingers, but thought them quite awkward and sold them. I've seen a number of the larger serving tongs -- many of them French -- but never a serving spatula like the second shown here. But it sure looks like that's its intended purpose. For those considering growing it, it's easy and rewarding to do so, although it takes time to get well established. And you'll need more plants than you'd think -- my bed of a dozen or so plants (Jersey King, about to enter its fifth season) produces enough only for omelets and stir-fries, not enough for two to feast on in pure form! There's a cut-your-own farm near us, though, and I just love going out into the big fields of asparagus.... IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 03-07-2006 03:59 PM
 Above are two asparagus SERVING tongs that I used as examples in other threads. The first is French (they always are extra heavy) and the second is American. FWG brings up a good point about eating asparagus with ones fingers unless a sauce was also provided. One web site seemed to indicate that the individual asparagus tongs were designed to allow the diner to pick up the asparagus that were “sauced” and were considered a substitute for using ones fingers. The prohibition of using a fork must have run deep. I still see many of the individual tongs for sale and I think they are still made in some of the more popular patterns. We see white asparagus for sale during the growing season, but I must admit I prefer the green ones. Pickled asparagus are also excellent.
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Aquaesulis Posts: 4 |
posted 03-07-2006 08:18 PM
Interesting that ahwt mentions that French asparagus tongs are always heavy - the French predominantly eat white asparagus (large and fat) whilst here in England 99% of asparagus for sale is the green variety which is very much more delicate. So that would explain the size / weight difference of the tongs. Most supermarkets and grocers sell it when in season. Best served on a hot plate with melted butter, a squeeze of lemon juice and cracked pepper after a brief pan steaming. Yum! IP: Logged |
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taloncrest Posts: 169 |
posted 03-07-2006 09:00 PM
I've managed to obtain both individual and serving asparagus tongs. I have two of the individual tongs which I obtained from an estate sale, and the serving tongs came from a little country auction not far from my house. They are by Elkington, and the individual tongs may be marked with the 1910 date mark. It looks like a Y in a square, and the design would be appropriate for that date. It has a registration number that appears to be RD871195, and is marked Savoy Hotel. The serving tongs do not have the metal ring that most seem to have, and are definitely marked with the symbol for 1950.
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taloncrest Posts: 169 |
posted 03-07-2006 10:48 PM
I sincerely apologize. I reduced the size of my pictures and believed I had them small enough to meet the guidelines. I realize now that I decided to add two more pictures, and neglected to resize them. IP: Logged |
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outwest Posts: 390 |
posted 03-07-2006 11:53 PM
I just ate asparagus for dinner tonight. To bad I didn't have any of those tongs. I just used my fingers. How Gauch! IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 03-08-2006 10:40 AM
As FWG says asparagus is really worth growing. Not only delicious, but beautiful. When you stop harvesting the spears grow 6-8 feet tall with beautiful ferny foliage. It does take time though. Plant asparagus after you get tenure. I tried a trial run with the strange asparagus server, using Bics and Sharpies as a stand in for asparagus. It works surprisingly well. The problem would be that the ribbed design requires so much silver that it would not be very economical to make. Did I mention how heavy it was?. It would make more sense in silverplate. Thank you all for your posts. I'm learning so much from all of you. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 03-08-2006 11:25 AM
I noticed in Silver Magazine that the Smithsonian’s Cooper-Hewitt, National Design Museum has an exhibit entitled “Feeding Desire: Design and the Tools of the Table, 1500, 2005” starting May 5 and running to October 29. They also are hosting a symposium July 17-21 on topics relating to the exhibition. See www.cooperhewitt.org Perhaps they will have definitive information on asparagus servers. And welcome to all the new members. A thread on food really does produce an interesting discussion. IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 04-28-2006 10:24 PM
The asparagus came in with less enthusiasm this year, perhaps I bragged about it too much....But I did have friends over for lunch [lightly steamed whole asparagus (I went with the recipe I knew best) and chicken pie.] I never found a definitive source for placement of asparagus tongs so I put a pair to the right of the luncheon knife at each place setting, dispensing with the spoon entirely. Bob and Carol, did you ever have your formal meal with asparagus? If you did, I'd be interested in how you handled the flatware placement. Since my sneaky underhanded purpose was to prosletyze, I asked each guest to bring something made of silver for show and tell. There was a lovely English tea set, some small creamers, and a set of American coin silver spoons impressed Homer (or Humer) and Sipes. We had coffee and dessert in the garden. Next year I will be more ambitious. More food and more company. There are eight pairs of asparagus tongs in the set. I'll buy extra asparagus. I wish you all could come! IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 04-28-2006 11:51 PM
Sets of asparagus tongs like these you have do appear quite frequently on the US market. Given the dealers who have them and their other silver items, it would appear that they are being reproduced. Complete with the original commercial monogram. Which seems like a good thing imho to bring back a scarce and useful piece of silver in a way that more people can enjoy owning and using. In US silverplate there are few asparagus tongs in patterns but they were made. They do exist in both Old Colony 1911 and Heraldic 1917. But more generally the ones seen are English imports. IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 04-29-2006 09:32 AM
Hello Dale, What a great idea for a fad! It would be fun to hear new brides complaining about how many sets of asparagus tongs they received as wedding gifts. See Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point or Bellweather by Connie Willis. We can tell reproductions by their bright new surface, right? Older Pieces have the fine scratches that come from decades of being jumbled together with other flatware. I know patina can be applied but I can't see the sellers of reproduction commercial silverplate going through the trouble. The friend who gave me the asparagus tongs said she found them in the back of a drawer in the house that belonged to her stepfather, now hers, in England. She has family silver. The tea set was assayed in Sheffield. I recognized the crown. She guessed mid 1800s but the letter vs from 1819 through 1863 all look so similar. Also said the good pieces were stored at the bank and promised to haul them out and invite me over--I'll take my camera. IP: Logged |
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T-Bird-Art Posts: 143 |
posted 04-29-2006 05:44 PM
Here is a Asparagus Tray  IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-06-2006 10:08 AM
rian, You just need to travel north to keep it coming! I'm down in a warm valley here in CNY, with good sun exposure, and my asparagus just started coming in this week, going gangbusters. There's a commercial (u-cut) farm up on the hill that typically comes in a couple of weeks after mine, so we stretch the season by going to them when we're done down here -- at $2 a pound, who could resist? I'll take some photos when we go up there so people who aren't familiar can see how it grows; my little bed wouldn't impress anyone.... IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 07-21-2006 08:37 AM
I've learned that the silver plated asparagus tongs that started this thread came from the Royal Mail Lines cruise ship Andes. Dorothea, could you find the answer to my original question. What date? is represented by the Mappin and Webb g in a shield? T-Bird, that picture makes my mouth water, and not just for the asparagus! IP: Logged |
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 07-21-2006 04:07 PM
There is a wonderful article in the most recent Silver Magazine by Dale Bennett, William Hood and Charles Curb on the history and evolution of asparagus servers. It is part 1 of a two part article, and is full of good information on the history of asparagus and the utensils used to serve it. IP: Logged |
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William Hood Posts: 271 |
posted 07-23-2006 04:31 PM
Doc: Thanks for the compliment. The article will actually be in three parts, the last two devoted to American implements. IP: Logged |
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