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 How to start collecting, please give your 2 cents?
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| Author | Topic: How to start collecting, please give your 2 cents? |
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Rosomane Posts: 2 |
posted 01-07-2007 07:21 PM
  
[26-1301] I recently bought an American coin silver spoon and cream ladle (I think American also). My curiosity about them led me to this forum and seeking to learn more. I've reserved 7 books from the library.... I already owned sterling flatware and a few pieces of sterling holloware - but the coin pieces, hand wrought, are really exciting in comparison! I am fascinated by the monograms as well. Before I leap into the acquisition abyss, I am hoping some of you might advise me where a good beginning might be, what to avoid and other pearls of wisdom you wish you had been told when you first got The Bug. I will add, I got both pieces from a auction where I've found treasures, been ripped off and everything in between. Thanks in advance for your time! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 01-07-2007 08:40 PM
Greetings Mary and welcome to the forums and our mutual obsession. I suspect that the answer to your question will be different for every member here. Some collect by form -- salt spoons, tongs, sugar bowls What category you choose depends on your interests, patience, and pocketbook. Start small; read as much as you can and take copious notes; ask questions, questions, questions; buy deliberately, not on impulse (but stay open to the voice of that little neglected spoon in the back corner); treat every piece as unique, with its own history to tell, not as just another example of xyz. And don't be surprised if you end up following an entirely different course than the one you started on. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 01-07-2007 11:27 PM
My one bit of advice has always been to try to actually handle as much of what you want to collect as is possible. If you have a friend who will open his/her collection to you or go to as many auctions/antique shows as possibe. As Wev said ASK, ASK, ASK and then ask some more. I do not know of a single collector who will not talk your ear off about their addiction. Good luck with your collecting and be forewarned that no cure has ever been found. IP: Logged |
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witzhall Posts: 124 |
posted 01-08-2007 08:24 AM
Welcome to the forum, rosomane, and to the best resource I have found for learning about silver in many of its myriad forms. Many of the folks here are noted and among the most knowledgeable you will find anywhere, and - as long as a forum member follows The Guidelines - among the most generous. (So far, with your introduction, you are right on track; if you haven't read the Please Read Before You Post section, be sure to do so, especially the link How to Post Photos before you do that.) On another note, the book that I found most useful when I began collecting a few years ago and still use often is Martha Gandy Fales' volume Early American Silver for the Cautious Collector. You can also find a very useful list of recommendations on the forum (click here (Starting a Library on Silver). Good luck and welcome! IP: Logged |
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Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 01-08-2007 10:24 AM
I think Wev made two of the most significant points when he said " the answer to your question will be different for every member here" and " don't be surprised if you end up following an entirely different course than the one you started on." Very true words To which I would add
The very best of luck IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 01-08-2007 11:23 AM
Great advice from everyone so far, especially the part about educating yourself and starting small since as soon as you get above a few dollars for something you begin to get into the problem of fakes (outright fakes), altered items (such as adding or altering maker's markings on otherwise period items to increase market values), and reproductions (both modern and more dangerously old reproductions that have honest age but are were made well after the period and not by the purported maker) hiding in with the real things, especially with things like old American silver. Be aware that even well known collections and museums normally have their share of these noxious things mixed in with their material - though normally to a lesser extent than the average collector's items, so you need to be chary as you educate yourself that not everything that even authoritative sources have confirmed as authentic actually is authentic. Even the best experts can be fooled, especially these days as the forgers keep getting more and more technology while they are also becoming more and more educated on what the real items and their markings look like. Collecting is truly rewarding on a personal level (especially if you forget about the investment angle as has been mentioned) but it is all the more so if you take care to minimize the mistakes you will inevitably make. Also, being well educated will make your collecting all the more interesting and it will greatly increase your appreciation of the "good" objects you will accumulate. One other suggestion is to plan in advance how you will want to display or use your things - which will to some degree help you decide what to collect. Keeping them all tucked away in a safe deposit box or in the back of some cupboard or underwear drawer would result in the loss of much of the joy you can have with your collection. Silver was made to used and displayed so if you can form a collection that you will actually use and display you would gain far more from it. Just be sure to clean everything (but don't scrub or polish things to the point of losing their well earned patina) after you acquire it since you have no idea where it has been or what might still be on it. When not being used, it is wonderful to have it displayed in a cabinet or on a shelf or such. Even if you eventually collect so many things that you have too much to display it all at the same time you can rotate your collection in your display cabinets every few months so you can enjoy all of it. IP: Logged |
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Rosomane Posts: 2 |
posted 01-08-2007 07:27 PM
I appreciate all that's been offered in response to my post, thanks to all! It's nice to know ONE place I can state I enjoy polishing silver and not get a look of disbelief. Decorative chochkis are not my thing, I have little inclination to dust! I love the whole experience of eating off of jewelry aka silver. I will take your advice and start making field trips to silver exhibitions - I seem to recall that the Huntington and Getty have some displays so I'll start with those. And antique shows, my mother used to take me to Bustamante as I recall, wonder if they still have them (just musing out loud). So I shall do my best to hold off buying until I have some reading and handling experience. Thanks again. I've got a lot of reading to do right here in the archives - brilliant idea this forum! IP: Logged |
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Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 01-10-2007 02:33 PM
A point that we all forgot is that all collectors should have a policy on damaged and repaired items. Usually we all decide to keep to undamaged and unrepaired items, then break the rule the next day ! As a buckle collector I perforce must accept some damage/wear - buckles tend to suffer. My own rules (very flexible) is to look at the rarity of an item, and if I should be able to get a better specimen - not to buy a damaged or worn one. But as is so often the case the really desirable items only turn up badly battered and you cannot resist . IP: Logged |
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 01-10-2007 04:39 PM
I am in complete agreement with Clive about trying to stick to a resolution of not purchasing damaged items, unless of course you pick a real specialization such as his! The other thing I suggest is that as you are learning about your particular collection items, you will undoubtedly learn about other types of silver or partcular pieces that pique your interest. Don't be afraid to start multiple collections! This raises a general question for me for my fellow collectors-how many pieces does it take to be considered to have started a collection? I say it's 3 or more for anything other than spoons or pieces of a particular flatware pattern-for those, I think 5 or more. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 01-10-2007 06:48 PM
(Soapbox Warning!) I take quite a different position on some kinds of damaged and repaired items. If it were run over by a car that would be one thing, but pieces with honest wear, damage, and repairs in consequence of use are to me at least as interesting as 'pristine' pieces. It's always seemed to me a bit inconsistent to say on the one hand that we like to use silver and not see it locked away in a cabinet, but on the other to only want pieces that look like they've been locked away in said cabinet. A (Swiftian) Modest Proposal: If you want only pristine silver, why not just buy new pieces? That would also support living silversmiths, jewelers, and allied craftsmen - a group we claim to care about, but perhaps too often fail to put our money where our mouths are. I was in a high-end jeweler's last week that's going out of business, and they had a few dozen pieces of gorgeous brand-new English sterling - baskets, urns, plates, etc. - all marked down to pretty remarkable prices. There are silver shops in London full of the stuff, and hundreds of artistic and commercial silversmiths around the world who would certainly welcome the business. I doubt many of us will follow this prescription When it comes to, say, a large silver spoon that's had most of its bowl worn away by stirring pots on the stove, I evaluate it on the basis of various interests. As an anthropologist I'm interested in the fact that someone chose to use it that way, but sometimes I also just find it depressing that they didn't know, or realize, or care, that they were destroying something of value and significance. A spoon that's been run through a garbage disposal is even more purely depressing (although I managed to restore one that wasn't too badly torn up - nothing rare, just a matter of treating it right because I could). A cover of Metalsmith magazine last year featured a piece of art created by crushing a bunch of silverplate pieces in a roller. Fairly interesting, as are some of the other things that people do with unremarkable pieces of plate and even solid silver. But I would likely join the chorus if anyone suggested doing that to a 'more interesting' piece. The problem is, that definition of 'interesting' varies from person to person, and can change over time.... So I say, befriend some pieces that have been loved perhaps a bit too much! And while we're at it, why not collect a few brand new things as well when they show creativity and quality, and support an artisan! IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 01-11-2007 01:31 AM
I collect mostly handwrought items and like having a few new mixed in with the old. If it's well made, that is all that matters to me. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-11-2007 01:31 PM
Whether one accepts less than perfect objects I think depends on one's motivation for collecting. If one is interested only in monetary/investment value, then perfection is paramount. If one is interested in historical significance, examples of work of particular craftsmen, particular geographical areas, or particular forms, then rarity must figure into the equation - sometimes a thing cannot be passed over if one cannot turn around and find another in better condition, as many antique items are one-of-a-kind, or so rare that they might as well be. I can see no important difference (other than dollar value) between an undamaged item and one that can be repaired in such a way that it has not been altered in any meaningful way, except that the cost of repair must be figured into the purchase. And then some objects are so prohibitively costly that a less than perfect example may be better than no example at all - consider it a "rescue" if you will, but in so doing you will have preserved a portion of history for future generations during whose time these objects will have become increasingly scarce. For myself, I have found great enjoyment and satisfaction in finding and owning such objects. Here is one example (Rare form?) and another (Early cream pot -- provenance lost) of my personal favorites, whose significance was unappreciated or unrecognized by other prior owners or potential buyers (Each has a repair and one is unsigned). There are other such examples to be found in these forums as well. IP: Logged |
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Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 01-11-2007 04:06 PM
The subject of damage is a very personal one for all of us. I can give three quotes that illustrate the problem. From Clive's dictionary
From Geoffrey Godden (English Porcelain expert)
From Clive's Wife.
IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 01-11-2007 10:53 PM
My own thoughts on silver collecting. Try for the pieces that mold themselves to your hand, the ones that drape themselves on your fingers. There are very few things I regret buying; there are many I regret passing up. Check out the monthly market at Long Beach, recall seeing some very nice silver there. One strange feature of silverware is that you frequently buy in odd lots, not individual pieces. Your choice is everything in the box or nothing at all. Which results in collections going all sorts of strange ways. Which also results in constant new things to play with. Good luck. IP: Logged |
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Primroy Posts: 42 |
posted 01-13-2007 12:42 AM
I am trying to determine a collecting policy on damaged / repaired items. In collecting flatware how serious are dents in spoons? I am looking at four Early 19th c spoons (7 inch)in an antique store. Two are good and two have dents. Is it better to have four of a set or two good items? I love collecting pairs of items, by the way. I have many pairs of vases and pairs of plates. Now I moving to Georgian silver. A person can have too many pairs of plates! IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-13-2007 01:45 AM
Spoons without dents are always better, but they are nearly unavoidable when it comes to the small, lightweight coin silver teaspoons that often were given to teething babies to chew on. It goes with the territory. How much you accept and whether you prefer singles, pairs, or sets, depends on what and why you are collecting. Some would tell you that it is preferable to keep members of sets together, either for historical reasons or because sets can be worth more than the sum of their parts, but nobody can tell you which is best for you but you yourself. IP: Logged |
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Primroy Posts: 42 |
posted 01-13-2007 02:50 PM
Thanks! I wasn't sure if serious collectors would have a bowl reshaped or not. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 01-13-2007 04:58 PM
I take dents out of bowls pretty regularly -- but I have the right tools and experience to do it. You need a set of spoon stakes and a nylon hammer; the spoon stakes made today are shaped for modern spoons so you have to work with different ones to match the curvature of the original form. It's slightly tricky, but not very. Once you have the hang of it, it's not much harder than correcting a bent handle -- you just can't do it with your bare hands! IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-13-2007 05:46 PM
"Reshaping" a bowl implies more than just removing dents or taking out bends. Some dealers will reshape a bowl by evening out worn edges, which changes the overall shape of the bowl and constitutes an alteration, but makes it "look better" for resale purposes. Serious collectors do not do this - "honest wear" is part of the history of the piece and is less objectionable than alteration, which in the eyes of many collectors seriously lessens or even destroys the value of the piece. IP: Logged |
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bibit Posts: 16 |
posted 01-14-2007 02:18 PM
Like any collecting, follow what you love and feel passionate about... My love is modern flatware. I understand your bah to housework, lets polish silver philosophy. I am not a big fan of cooking or planned dinners either, but a sterling fork will make a TV dinner elegant and fun! I have a few bumped pieces, one is a silverplate tea pot my daughter brought me from austria. I would never think of taking out the bump. I am pretty new to sterling. The best tip I have for silver is Wrights silver cream. I do not use anything else. Wonderful stuff! I agree this chat is a great place. I know my family grows tired of "look its a 1927 silver spoon made by ......etc." This is a happy place for silver fans! IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 01-14-2007 03:05 PM
quote: Agreed. Reshaping is deceving (generally), and thus inappropriate. Taking out dents or bends I don't find as problematic. But I should also note that I don't always do it; as I argued above, some kinds of wear/damage are 'natural' parts of the history of a piece. Each piece has to be evaluated on its own to decide what's right to do or not do. And of course not everyone is going to agree on every decision.... IP: Logged |
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We like the history, right? So why do so many object to a bit of wear? (and for another level of devil's advocacy, why not polish away all that lovely patina if you want a piece in perfect condition? most were intended to be nice and uniformly shiny, after all)