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 The rising price of silver.. How does it effect you?
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| Author | Topic: The rising price of silver.. How does it effect you? |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 03-05-2011 01:29 PM
  
[01-2911] I would like to ask the members of the SMP forums to think of how the rising price of silver is effecting how you are thinking about your collecting and collections.. Note that the price of silver reached $35.50 per troy oz. 3-4-11. Let me start. For me, there is a whole lot more silver of all kinds that is coming out of homes. (spot silver is at $35./ozt today). A piece has to be really fantastic for me to add it to my collection. I am upgrading my collection, by selling the lower end and replacing with better quality items. IP: Logged |
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chase33 Posts: 362 |
posted 03-05-2011 08:20 PM
Yes there is more coming out of the wood work but alot of it is alsi going to the smelter. The silver dealer I work with has an arrangement with several pickers to swap his scrap silver for better pieces. Unfortunately, he can't buy all of the pieces, so unless he can find a buyer, the pickers are sending it to the smelter. Another problem is that they tend to use the flat-rate boxes which means they may have to cut up larger pieces to make them fit in the box. So even if the smelter has someone on the lookout for good pieces (which I doubt) aall they will find are cut-up pieces. So many pieces, so little money, so much talent lost. Robert IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-05-2011 09:39 PM
It is amazing to see silver that barely 7 months ago was below $20/oz and now is almost double. I was sure that it would stop around thirty and for a while it did. Now I remind myself that I am glad I do not deal in commodities. As a maker, not a big collector or dealer, I have never had to pay to much attention to price changes. I usually have enough stock on hand to get me through the highs, such as in 1980-1. Also even at $30/oz if I make a pair of candle sticks the cost of the silver is only 1/10th or less of the cost. Even though I am a US smith I trained in London and that is where my thoughts go as the price rises. This will hit the trade in England very hard. I worry that there will be a further devastating hit to the established firms that will finish what the Hunt brothers started. As for what is going into the melt pots most seems to be fairly mundane and I believe there are mountains of low end silver, so no great loss. As to the good things - we can only try to educate those who do not know. I think if you can make a connection with a smelter and find valuable things he might make the effort to find another way to dispose of them. One last thought is that silver has seen a very stable period for the last 100 or so years. By that I mean there have been no wars/famines like in past times when silver would have been melted wholesale. I meet people who have basements/attics full of the stuff so for my part I won't get worried that it will all disappear just yet! IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 03-06-2011 07:04 PM
Hi - roughly waighting my silver collection as 70 kg Regards IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-06-2011 08:04 PM
Depends if you think they are mundane or fantastic.... but don't be rash! If you ask me I'd say your beautiful objects are still cheap @35 IP: Logged |
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taloncrest Posts: 169 |
posted 03-06-2011 09:52 PM
I just don't buy as much as I used to, but sometimes I can still find a really good deal at antique malls and flea markets if the folks with the scales haven't been through recently. Usually to get my silver fix nowadays I've had to resort to sets of silverplate flatware at auction. Hey, I have a flatware fetish and I like mine to match. Like Postnikov, I've estimated the silver value of part of my collection, my flatware, as that is the only part of my collection that I have an inventory of. I would like to dispose of a good bit of it since the value has climbed and unfortunately it seems like everyone around here knows that I collect it, but the only real value it has is melt value, as most of my flatware is common mass produced stuff. I'm thinking about just selling my least favorite set, one of Alvin's Spring Bud pattern, and slowly starting from there. Postnikov, from what you have shown of your collection, you would be greatly selling yourself short to sell it for melt. IP: Logged |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 03-06-2011 11:55 PM
Hi there Taloncrest.. Concerning selling your least favorite set of silver, shop it around.. For sterling silver, you should get at least 80% of what spot silver is at the time you sell it. If spot is $35., you should take no less then $28./ troy oz. Hollow handle knives count as .5 ounces, smaller hollow handle pieces count as 1/3 rd of an ounce. If you are like me, you will find it tough to part with your "babies", but it will give you money to help upgrade your collection. Hope this helps.. Marc IP: Logged |
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taloncrest Posts: 169 |
posted 03-07-2011 08:18 AM
quote: Marc, you are so right. Items that I consider "mistakes" are not hard to dispose of, but with everything else it is very difficult to do. And thanks for the tip. I usually put my silver up on the big auction site, and start it just a bit less than I would get from the refinery. I'm waiting right now for another free listing period. I could also put it in a local auction, but I definitely don't want to sell it directly to someone who I know will melt it. I want to keep my delusion that it will be loved and cherished intact. IP: Logged |
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salmoned Posts: 336 |
posted 03-26-2011 03:13 AM
I've bought most of my tiny 'collection' for less than intrinsic silver value (not quite melt, tho) before silver rose above $10/tr oz. So, I'm just not really able to pull the trigger at current prices - my collecting days are nearly over (I do still find bargains, on occasion). Researching, displaying and cherishing my collection and that of others is all that's left to me.  IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 03-26-2011 06:34 AM
Just a thought about silver prices. When the Hunt thing happened and silver hit $50 oz. I could fill my gas tank for around $10, buy a week's groceries for for 15 and go out for pizza and beer on the returns of an ounce of sterling. As of today I could mostly do only one of those things for an ounce of silver. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-26-2011 12:27 PM
Selling antique silver for scrap is why third world countries have bullet pock marked adobe walls. IP: Logged |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 03-26-2011 05:11 PM
Hi Argentum.. I am sorry, but I don't quite follow your argument.. Would you be so kind as to elaborate. Thanks much. Marc IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-11-2011 04:44 PM
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June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 |
posted 04-11-2011 06:36 PM
The rising price of silver for us is a bit of a ying yang conundrum. There isn't much we're tempted to buy because the prices are so high on even the most boring of pieces. On the other hand, we've been compelled to buy certain pieces because we couldn't bear seeing them go to scrap. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 04-12-2011 09:05 AM
I have had a few thoughts and I wonder if they sound reasonable to others? One is that there is a mountain of junk out there and what I see is 98% of melt is just that. Also if all the bad stuff is flying out the window does that not mean that the good/great things remain - I mean this is not driven by a war where everything good and bad would go. Yes the 2% is a shame but I do not think we are in danger of running out - how much was mined in just the Comstock Lode? IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 04-12-2011 09:39 AM
Marc My sometimes weird rational is sometimes difficult to explain. I will not be attempting an explanation here as it is of a political nature. IP: Logged |
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June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 |
posted 04-13-2011 09:44 PM
The reality is, they ain't making this stuff the way they used to and when it's gone it's gone forever. IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 04-15-2011 12:32 AM
I have written this before. During times old silver was melted and reused. That has been the case of centuries. Around 150 years ago old silver was collected to make a new silver for the crownprince and his wedding. Some of it it even renaissance pieces. When castle of Copenhagen was rebuild after fire in 1906 the roof needed cupper. The use of copper in household kitchen was out of fascion so old pots and pans was recycled - some of it several hundreds years old. After WW2 there was a lack of silver so people donated their old silver to be used in industry. Some efforts was made to save some of these items - today they are at museums. Today 1 baroque spoon = 1 unse = 40$ I dont think that many baroque spoons anno 1750 will be melted. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-15-2011 10:45 AM
I just sent everyone who posted in this thread a message. If you didn't get it please make sure the SMPub.com is white listed and check your SPAM. If you didn't get the message then make sure your user profile has the correct email address. You do this by updating your User Profile. Use the profile link. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 04-17-2011 02:38 PM
I just took in some scrap gold and silver, happening to be there while someone else brought in a trash bag filled with her silver - fortunately just some mid 20th century reproduction-type holloware, some very worn Watson spoons and a set of unremarkable German silver (as well as some silverplate). While I didn't have to see someone scrapping anything of note, was not surprised to see that she had no idea of what her pieces were, or if they were even solid or plate. Suspect that a great deal of very fine silver is being sent to the smelter, and the dealers are turning it over very quickly because of the fairly wide swings in value. Many people, even in the antiques business, do not have much knowledge regarding silver - last year, on a another forum, a poster asked about some demitasse spoons that a large auction house had dismissed as only worth scrap-price, after some discussion with varied opinions, I checked in and saw that they were Gorham's Hamburg. While I don't have any problem with common, ordinary silver being scrapped, just don't believe that most people would know the difference between a hand-crafted and mass-produced piece; and would have to respectfully disagree with the thought that all post 1850 pieces are "purely machine made" (or that they have no aesthetic value, only intrinsic). On a personal level, the few pieces I've bought in the last few months were purchased for well under their scrap value at the time, though the ones I've sold were at over scrap - but I've been keeping up on the price..... ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 04-17-2011 03:54 PM
could be that some after 1850 is worth saving. But only a portion of that. The majority is made for a different period and a different style. We cannot keep everything - and there are no reason to keep everything. That is the nature of development. The fact is that a spoon has a weight of around 50 gram - 830 silver means that you have 41.5 gram of fine silver - that is more than one unse - and a price of 40$ is way more than the spoon is worth i trade. In case anyone even bother to look and even to buy. My point being - it is sad when history disappers, but to say that all is our history - that is not correct. And I do not include the masterpieses made by a silversmith after 1850. But again how many hand made pieces after 1850 do we see? [This message has been edited by Hose_dk (edited 04-17-2011).] IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 04-17-2011 05:59 PM
I don't think anyone should look at any artistic object with dollar signs in their eyes. It's just sad. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 04-18-2011 07:39 PM
If I was unclear, personally have no problem with scrapping of some silver, having sent some low quality and severely damaged pieces to the smelter myself.....My point was that nothing, sadly including 300 year old spoons and newer pieces considered valuable by some, is safe from those who do not have the knowledge to recognize or appreciate them. And having viewed one comment prior to editing, might add that an appreciation of age is not limited to those from outside the relatively young United States - and that age and/or method of construction are not the only criteria for the desirability or rarity of an item..... ~Cheryl [This message has been edited by dragonflywink (edited 04-18-2011).] IP: Logged |
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Nyoman Posts: 69 |
posted 04-19-2011 08:45 PM
We buy a fair amount of ordinary sterling hollow ware from various US auction houses on a fairly regular basis. Where I live, here in Bali, gold and silver bullion is taxed on import, so for our thriving silver business, it’s a much better deal for us to import as “base metal used table wares” sterling pieces of no particular merit in lieu of bullion. Because most of our buying competition for this sort of sterling silver in the US usually factor in smelter’s fees (10 to 15%) we don’t need to do that as we do our own smelting and thus able to produce sterling silver objects, even after considering shipping, at a much better rate than if we had to purchase silver bullion. One trend that I have been noticing of late is that there seems to be an increasing amount of silver sold in US auction houses of better and better quality at very close to its raw silver content value. If silver continues to climb in value ($43.91 as I post), this trend will become more alarming, and I fear that many pieces with greater aesthetic quality will find their way into being transformed into earrings, bracelets, necklaces etc. for our ever growing tourist market. It appears that most market analysts are projecting silver to be at least $50.00 per troy ounce by year’s end. Gold hit a record all time high of $1,500.00 today, so who knows for certain, but if this happens, one can only wonder how much more mid and even higher end quality antique or vintage silver will end up being re-cycled into new objects of questionable aesthetic merit. Therein of course is the rub with the historical tradition of re-cycling silver. IP: Logged |
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FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 04-19-2011 11:48 PM
I have not been able to buy much silver lately due to the rising cost. I was amazed to walk into a local thrift store and find handwrought modernist porringer signed by an undocumented silversmith priced at just over $14. Not certain why it was priced so low and I am glad I acquired it since the seller says folks visit it often to buy the sterling to melt and sell. The footed porringer has the subtle planishing marks that give clear indication of how it was made. Seems that bargains are still available out there even in this extreme market. Fred IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 04-20-2011 06:58 AM
sunday I went to a flee marked. I have been there a few times before, but this time I found a lack of silver. Somebody had bought all the ordinary stuff leaving only the silver prices as antique silver. I soppose that it work that way at every salesplace. IP: Logged |
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Nyoman Posts: 69 |
posted 04-22-2011 07:15 AM
Sooner or later, and I think it’s already happening, the bullion price will over take the “antiquarian” or collectable value of much of what is offered these days as antique and vintage silver. Of course this won’t happen with the best of silver…can you imagine a Paul Storr or Paul Revere piece ever being sold at or near its bullion value? Unlike the Hunt brothers phenomenon, if silver is going to hold its present levels, and continue to advance within the realm of being realistic, then we may all need to evaluate to some degree (IMHO), what we are collecting, and why. For certain, collecting is a passion and it is normally driven by the heart and eye of the individual collector. That said, should we be redirecting our eyes and re-thinking our romance with the silver we have collected for years? Very nice, in fact, wonderful George III and like dating early 19th century American silver is being sold right now on many auction sites at prices very close to their raw silver value. If, as a collector, you’ve always avoided these early pieces before because of their high value and price…how can you possibly avoid them now? Is this all a curse, or is it a blessing? The answer to that is tied to your belief or non belief that this time, and unlike the last time (Hunt et all), silver will hold whatever value it attains in this bull running wild market. So yes, back to Marc’s original question, (the original post), for me anyway, the price of silver as a commodity is without doubt effecting the way I think as a collector. There is so much out there to collect, so why shouldn’t I be somewhat persuaded to concentrate on those wonderful objects with high aesthetic value (as I see it) when combined with high intrinsic value…viz silver bullion value? IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 04-22-2011 02:00 PM
I just got back from a pawn shop trip looking for silver. The prices I saw precipitated a 911 phone call and a short trip to an emergency room. Have no fear of the better mass produced silver been sent to the melting pots. Old and New silver will make its way there only due to the ignorance of the owners/buyers. It is also influenced by corrupt greed. My home town has one buyer and I watched as an out of state vehicle pulls up and the driver offers a 'block' of gold. No questions were asked and the transaction took place. I thought about calling the police dept but as the gold had been melted and no way to prove anything I did not. I did make a trip to the police dept to make certain they knew this person was a dealer and without apparent scruples. What ever happened to plain old honesty. I am almost glad that my time on this earth is getting shorter. IP: Logged |
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 04-23-2011 05:34 PM
My experience has been that (a) I am selling pieces that I have had in two group shops for several years; (b) I cannot find pieces to replace, so am finding my inventory dwindling. Interestingly, sales have been of sterling and coin silver; my "scrapping" source (to whom I will only take damaged pieces) will not take coin silver, but maybe others do. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 04-23-2011 07:48 PM
With the price fast closing in on $50/oz the things that are showing up at my silver guy are starting to make me nervous. Before at $20-40/oz there was just a lot of junky stuff. Now the good things are coming in, London 1793, too nice to melt but at 80 oz it has to find a home soon, among other things, US coin and quite a bit of continental. Fortunately these things are being recognized for what they are but the sad thing will be when he can no longer afford to save them. When will that be? IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 06-27-2013 12:23 PM
April/May 2011 almost $50, now things are down in the $18 range. Will this slow the scraping and make antique silver affordable? Or is this the quiet before the next run up? IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 06-27-2013 07:10 PM
Scott that is an interesting chart you posted. The lines at the silver and gold scrapper’s booths have been short for some time and recently there are no lines. Sometime in the future the price will skyrocket again. This is a process that has been repeated over and over through the years and it must satisfy some basic need in our character. The scrapper I know about does take coin silver, but uses 80% as the amount of silver in something marked “coin”. IP: Logged |
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