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Cast-arm tongs: where & when?

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Author	Topic: Cast-arm tongs: where & when?
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 04-16-2013 03:34 PM [01-3067] A well-made, unmarked pair of sugar tongs with cast arms and bright-cut engraving on the bow. Where and when was it made? My guess is America, last quarter of the 18th century; anyone agree or disagree? It's big--6 inches long--and very heavy. Close up of the arms, with their careful decoration--I especially like the faceting on the centers of the flowers. The inside of the back arm shows a couple of indentations that I think are casting artifacts, not marks. Close up of the ends: The monogram: IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 04-16-2013 05:43 PM Without any markings or previously identified examples of the same design I don't know that place or even era of manufacture is going to be very simple, if at all possible. My initial gut reaction that is based on nothing but my sense of styling is more Mexican or Latin American than American, but this is just a very wild guess that I wouldn't bet a penny on being correct. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 04-16-2013 06:46 PM It's very similar in style to c. 1770s English cast arm sugar tongs, except for being bigger and having a wider bow: So I'm pretty confident that mine is from the universe of silver influenced by English styles of that period. Here's an example made in NYC in the c. 1770s: And a couple of Philadelphia tongs from the last quarter of the 18th c.: I don't know whether cast-arm sugar tongs existed in Mexico and South America, but I know almost nothing about that area. IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 04-16-2013 07:25 PM Beautiful tongs. Taloncrest's (Old cast sugar tongs?) tongs have grips that are similar to the grips on your tongs. Also his includes a rosette type design on the leg. Beautiful tongs. If they are heavy it could mean that they are English or they were purchased by an American with a bit more money than most. I would look for other tongs that have rosettes and grips similar to yours. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 04-16-2013 08:15 PM Thank you, ahwt. Yes, the grips are very much like the ones on Taloncrest's pair, except smooth at the bottom rather than scalloped. There are a number of pairs on the silversugartongs website referenced above that have the scalloped version, but I didn't see any with a smooth edge like mine. I ordered the book from that website--Georgian Silver Sugar Tongs--so maybe I'll find something similar in it. I assumed my pair couldn't be English or they would be marked--am I wrong? IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 04-16-2013 08:59 PM Another example of some: with rosettes similar to those on your tongs. These exhibit a problem that many of the cast tongs had; they are not as strong as other tongs and are subject to breaks or cracks. I think this weakness may have contributed to the change in design in the late 1700s. I don't think is was all that unusual for English silversmiths to send their unmarked goods to the colonies for resale. If they could bypass the authorities they would be free of tax. I have heard that some folks buy on the internet these days, do not pay sales tax and then overlook paying use tax to their home state. Not all that different. IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 04-16-2013 09:43 PM I think I would have to agree with Kimo on these, on the basis that the engraved lettering does not follow the usual Anglo-American style. The feathering is too uniformly tight against the letters and the letters themselves do not freely intertwine in the usual fashion. The F is quite odd looking to me, and the M should scroll on the right as it does on the left. Also, in America, I would expect block lettering in the 1770"s, if these actually are that early, although early script (if you can call it that) does appear more frequently in England. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 04-16-2013 10:16 PM ahwt, you're right--that pair is very similar to mine. I wish the mark were legible. Swarter, so interesting about the monogram. I guess I just assumed there were differences from engraver to engraver, like handwriting--I didn't realize you could tell so much from them. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 04-17-2013 10:33 AM Well, I sent photos to Graham Hodges, the author of that website and book about English tongs, who said he believes mine are English, c. 1770-75, and unmarked probably because they were made for the maker's family or given as a gift, not sold. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 04-17-2013 11:07 AM Oh, and he said probably a London maker. IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 04-18-2013 11:50 PM I like this London attribution. They feel too sophisticated to be provincial or colonial, partly because the casting and solder join are too good. IP: Logged

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