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 Crest/Heraldy on flatware
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| Author | Topic: Crest/Heraldy on flatware |
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park1226 Posts: 102 |
posted 04-22-2015 04:43 PM
  
I recently bought a number of pieces of plain Ball Black & Co (circa 1851-1876) 950 flatware that has an intriguing crest. There is a a federal style eagle on top of a stylized whale with a B monogram below. Out of curiosity I am trying to identify the crest to determine whether it is for a family or some sort of fraternal organization or institution. I have searched without success. Ball, Black & Co were in New York City and a lot of their flatware was produced by Wendt so I am assuming this is an American crest. Any ideas as to the owner of this crest?  IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 04-23-2015 10:07 AM
I can't help I'm afraid, but, I can say it's really cool!  IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-23-2015 11:53 AM
The sea-eagle/dolphin image appears on ancient Greek coins. Perhaps there is a Greek connection? IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 04-23-2015 08:11 PM
There are no American crests, or arms, or badges, or supporters or any other heraldic devices. There are British, German, French, Spanish, etc. ones though. Some Americans have either legally inherited them through their direct line of male ancestors who had been awarded a coat of arms at some point in the past, or even been awarded them personally on an honorary basis but in either way it is done under the authority of the crown's heralds of the granting country. Perhaps the best known heralds are the College of Arms in London who grant arms, crests, badges, etc. under the Queen's authority. It is led by the Royal Heralds who are members of the Royal Household and are directly appointed by the Queen to perform this function under her sole authority to grant arms in the UK and Commonwealth countries. In America anyone can make up any design and use it to their heart's content, but they cannot use it in a place where heraldry is a matter of law such as in the UK or British commonwealth countries or other places where heraldry is similarly controlled. The lack of such requirements in America has given rise to the many companies that "look up your family's coat of arms" and sell you a certificate or other swag. There is no such thing as a family coat of arms - as I mentioned, coats of arms and all of their parts are granted to a specific individual and is inherited only by their direct male heirs. The College of Arms in London will accept requests to look up a coat of arms but they will charge a very substantial fee for their time to manually research all of their records going back centuries whether they find it or not. And that is assuming the coat of arms is British and not some other country which they do not have records for. What you have engraved on your spoon you have correctly called a crest. The crest is the design that is drawn above the shield which carries the main design. The crest represents the device that is affixed to the top of the helmet. A crest can be less distinctive than the design on the shield and so may be a bit harder to identify. This crest appears to be an eagle with wings displayed standing on a dolphin swimming in waves on a mantlet. A torse is a twisted length of cloth, sometimes called a wreath, and show six segments of two alternating colors (the colors are usually the two main colors in the design on the shield) which is why you see those diagonal lines in the bar shaped line along the bottom. If the bearer of the coat of arms has any royal rank there would also be a crown or coronet between the torque and the crest so this particular coat of arms would not have come from someone who was descended from anyone of the nobility. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 04-23-2015).] IP: Logged |
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park1226 Posts: 102 |
posted 04-24-2015 09:43 AM
Thanks Kimo for succinctly summarizing all the information I also found on the web re. crest and heraldy. My hope is that this crest design and the B monogram on this mid nineteenth century flatware might be familiar to someone but I am not very optimistic. IP: Logged |
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