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 Greeting New Members
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| Author | Topic: Greeting New Members |
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efuerst100 Posts: 34 |
posted 06-09-2010 11:13 AM
  
[26-1984] We regularly "greet" new members by berating them for failing to follow the SSF rules. How about making the forum more inviting? How about installing a user interface that prompts new members to write about their interest in silver as a prerequisite to posting their first listing? Perhaps the interface would also teach them how to post photos. Such changes would not only satisfy the forum rules but also would spare new members of unfriendly, embarrassing public criticism in the forum. I, for one, cringe each time I see a newbie treated this terribly. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 06-09-2010 04:36 PM
Hear, hear! IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 06-09-2010 05:14 PM
quote:
But we do ask that New Members read the yellow box at the start of the this page (before posting) and respond with the requested info. And sometimes to remind the new member that they already acknowledged the SSF Terms of Service agreement when registering. There are Guidelines... In the New Members Forum is where new members who haven't comprehended the full scope of the Guidelines may err and then be directed as to how to abide by the SSF Guidelines. quote: Nice idea. Are you volunteering to do the coding or to pay the programmers to do this and then maintain the coding to accomplish this? I know that I am often not cajoling when I directly and politely ask the new member to read the yellow box that the start of this page. I often don't have the time to more. Also it is beyond me how anyone can miss the box that has: If other members like yourself would jump in before I feel compelled to re-point the new member to the Yellow box, Guidelines and/or the user Terms if Service agreement, then I would welcome and greatly appreciate it. Especially since it would give me more time for SSF maintenance and for making small SSF improvements. efuerst100 - I really very much appreciate your comments and suggestions. If I had the time and the resources to implement your suggestion, I would. But unfortunately, I don't. Even so, I am hoping to soon find more time to get some SSF (and SMP) improvements accomplished. So please don't hesitate to make additional suggestions. Dialoging with you about this is good but I would rather see the dialog happen between many more members and then eventually see the SSF moderators join in. The moderators do discuss this sort of thing off line. Often the SSF gets suggestions that the moderators didn't think of. For example; the New Members Post Here Forum was originally suggested by agleopar. After having the opportunity to digest and refine the thoughts/suggestions of many members, then hopefully the moderators will be able to refine all into something positive for the membership & to find a way to implement it with the available resources. IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 06-10-2010 08:50 AM
Hi Scott, Hi efuerst 100 - I understand both of your points of view but I tend to efuerst100's more "modern" version. Who really cares if the new member takes advantage in this or that way of the information he get from the forum - we all profit from the questions and answers! We need more "fresh blood" and it is not important to show the new member again and again that he knows nothing and that she/he missed or do not understand/follow the "PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU POST" - it is more important to guide the new member friendly and educational to the forum's/community's habits. We should not forget that we all were once new members and made mistakes. Not everybody is a computer freak but has his difficulties to take and post photos - here size matters! Do not snip - explain what to do and fix the photo for her/him! We are a community - no? Where are all the members? Why is nobody helping? Why this silence? Why no friendly support? I really do not understand the concept here compared to other sites. I would like gladly to re-point new members - but there are none. Regards IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 06-10-2010 02:52 PM
I am with Possnikow and fuerst on this one, and I also always cringe when the "Tell us first a little bit about yourself" comes. I have been reprimanded answering somebody who did not disclose his intentions - commercial use or not, in the end we all do sell either to upgrade, or to simply make money or to get rid of unwanted stuff.....who really cares? May I suggest that nobody has a really a purely "clinical approach" to collecting, i.e. keeping it forever or give the things to a museum. And one more, since we are quetching here, speaking of "the big out-west auction site" when meaning ebay, as if use of ebay would be sinistre??? And sniping of mentioned fetched prices - which could be very informative, (and not only to the seller) - should also be omitted. Cheers, Dorothea IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 06-10-2010 03:58 PM
This is something I have mixed feelings about. There have been a number of new posters who did follow the guidelines. And were treated very well. The lady with the inherited Norwegian silver was one who also had some very interesting silver. But there are others who have simply tried to get us to write their auction copy. Or who have not given us enough information to proceed. How to handle this is something I am not totally sure of. What suggestions do people have. Something that may not be realized: for those of us in the US who deal in silver, giving information on items to sellers may make us liable in case their are problems with the sale. This is a feature of the court happy US system which will seem strange to others. If I give an opinion that forms the basis for an ad and the buyer does not agree, I can be sued and hauled into court and made to pay damages. IP: Logged |
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 06-11-2010 10:43 AM
This forum exists through the generosity of Scott and June, and I think it is up to them to determine how it can be used. Do I think that perhaps the directness of our requests for more information might turn off some users? Surely. But I think that those who are genuine in their interest and take the time to comply have seen the benefit of a group that is generous with their knowledge and time. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 06-11-2010 01:48 PM
I don't think anyone but a teacher who has had to answer the same questions and enforce the same rules year after year can realize how tiresome it can become. It is like spitting into the wind. A little testiness can be understood, especially when the information is there in plain sight and is being ignored. These procedures have been honed over a considerable time, and are perfectly clear. Some people may just not bother to read, but there is always the perception that those who attempt to bypass the safeguards have something to hide. When one is a guest in someone elses house and you are asked to wipe your feet before entering, it behooves you to do so. The only really valid bug-a-boo to participation that I see is the inability to upload images directly to the site from ones own computer, as is possible on so many other sites. These arcane procedures have intimidated some of the less computer savvy posters, but I guess this software does not allow that to be done. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 06-11-2010 09:57 PM
I think that the non-commercial nature of the forum is what makes it interesting and allows for a free interchange of ideas. The guidelines are clearly written, take very little time to read and understand and if followed have proven to enhance the experience for all members. The requests to newcomers to read the guidelines have been courteous and to the point. I am not sure how else the requirements of the guidelines can be communicated to the newcomer. One change perhaps may make sense - change the name "guidelines" to "rules for participation". I have not posted any pictures on other websites so I cannot compare the difficulty with the method used on the Silver Salon Forum. I use Photobucket for hosting photos and after a short learning period found it to be very easy to post on this forum. [This message has been edited by ahwt (edited 06-15-2010).] IP: Logged |
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seaduck Posts: 350 |
posted 06-12-2010 03:28 PM
Here's another voice in the Efuerst camp. Admittedly, we do get people trolling for make-a-fast-buck information. And I confess to a certain smug pleasure when the obvious ones are summarily dispatched. But we have also turned off a number of people. Some disappear right away. Some have taken the time to protest what they perceive as rude and unwelcoming behavior on our part. I can understand the exasperation of dealing with the same questions and situations over and over. But we need to remember that what has become repetitive from the forum POV is a new experience for the first-time visitor. And, however blatant the banner about posting, we have to admit that we live in a world where few people take the time to read the manual. How many of us read the legalese that we 'agree' to when installing new software? Most forums online have similar instructions -- no spamming, no flaming, no commercial posts, no porn, etc, etc. I can't blame people for assuming that ours are any different from the same old, same old. In the interest of easing the burden on the moderators, I would suggest that they agree on some standard statement that makes the necessary point but is heavy on welcoming friendliness. Dale's point about liability is an interesting one -- I didn't realize this -- and I think the statement could include some apologetic reference to this as a reason for our persnicketiness. As for commerical stuff, esp mentioning prices...I always feel that we are a bit coy about this and imagine that the moderators probably do share info and have more open discussions about such things in their secret rooms. I completely understand Scott's POV on this and believe it has gone a long way toward maintaining the value and integrity of this site. At the same time, in the real (non Web) world, this is something collectors, dealers, and curators talk about (and enjoy talking about). It has educational value. If someone can tell me why one 18th century cann sold at auction for $5K and another, apparently identical one by the same maker sold at auction for $15K, I might learn something about connoisseurship, as well as general market conditions. Perhaps there is a way of defining and restricting those kinds of discussions (to past sales, most obviously) that can maintain our integrity while serving our legitimate educational interests. IP: Logged |
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OWK Posts: 69 |
posted 06-15-2010 08:25 AM
I have to agree with the original poster. I am a collector of American Coin Silver with an extensive database of obscure Southern silversmiths, jewelers, and watchmakers. I have seen many conversations on this forum in which I'd have loved to have taken part, but the forum access rules prohibited my participation. I now realize that I need to apply for full membership (it may seem intuitive to those who've designed the forum, but it isn't clear to everyone). In general, the membership of this forum has treated me kindly, and has been very helpful and respectful. I was however, greeted rather curtly at the door at first (as are most new forum participants). I have seen far worse treatment than I received doled out on occasion, making me cringe at times. This treatment serves to discourage otherwise excited and potentially strong-contributing new members from participating. In short, those policies that come across as abusive to new blood, are in my opinion choking this forum down into a small handful of regular posters. When I look at the categories which interest me, and I see that a week has gone by without a new post, I cannot help but conclude that the forum is in decline. I would suggest that instead of treating each new poster as an a priori criminal, that you wait until he actually does something in conflict with forum policy before pointing it out. In other words, if a new poster asks a question, perhaps it is best not to encircle them with multiple inquisitors asking "who wants to know, and why?". If a new poster makes a mistake with posting a picture, maybe it's best to assume that they don't have the same level of technical expertise that you have. If a poster is uncertain as to how to apply for full membership, maybe it's better to explain it to them, rather than respond with a few curt words and a link. In summary, this forum is populated by some of the most knowledgeable silver collectors and experts I am aware of. It's participants provide interesting insights into many facets of something we all share a love for. Unfortunately, the forum's growth and vibrancy are in my opinion being stifled by what is perceived by new users to be be rudeness and snobbery at the door. Certainly this isn't universally true. But it is true enough to hurt the forum. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 06-15-2010 01:42 PM
Perhaps I should say that when I registered as a new member not all that long ago I had no problem with the welcome and indeed received some patient and much appreciated help with posting photos (thanks, Scott). I had visited the forum on a number of occasions previously so had some idea of the "form" and was easily able to avoid provoking requests to read the guidelines. I did not start straight off with a question because I saw this as a discussion forum more than a substitute for a reference library I think the problem mainly comes with folk who simply have a question, search for somewhere to pose it, and then plunge in regardless. Some of these make me cringe, but there are others it would be a pleasure to help. Having said this, I don't know the answer. Perhaps a trial period during which we do not remind new members to introduce themselves to see how that goes? However, Scott has doubtless been there before and I would defer to him as the one who has to keep all this running smoothly. I agree that there are relatively few people who contribute regularly to the various forums but I notice this on other forums I visit too. I think the difference here is that we get far fewer question (what is this mark?) and answer posts. Regular reminders appear in the New Members Forum about the simple and painless procedure for obtaining full posting rights, of course, though I appreciate that the need to do this can appear off-putting to some. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 06-15-2010 03:53 PM
My personal feeling has always been, and continues to be, that the wishes of those who started and moderate the forums should be respected. When time constraints allow, I participate in a number of groups on silver and other subjects, turning down requests to moderate because I don't want the responsibilities or headaches. There are some sites that require "vetting" and so you wait until deemed worthy to participate or even view (though in fairness, this often has to do with filtering out spammers), some other sites will simply delete any not-by-the-rules posts and subsequent comments, often also deleting and blocking the offending members ID without discussion; and perhaps the worst are the unmoderated groups filled with unchecked rudeness, ignorance and petty personal battles, effectively scaring off those who prefer civil discourse. This site is ultimately a true "discussion" group for silver lovers rather than a place to find the quick answers. A number of us are collector/dealers and do cull our collections, along with buying for resale, with a distinct possibility that many of the pieces we show here will eventually end up being sold, but don't believe that's relevant to filtering out the random dealers looking for an easy answer, with no interest in actual participation. I've been here long enough to understand why the guidelines were implemented and have no problem with them, Scott has made every effort to be fair while trying to maintain the spirit of these forums. Something else to keep in mind is the open access to the Forums' archives, many sites require full membership, sometimes charging fees for access to much less valuable information than found here. Why does there seem to be so little recognition of that generosity, along with time and expense devoted to maintaining the site? Perhaps my point of view differs a bit because I do read or listen to instructions when offered, it's saved me no end of trouble in regards to classes and work, not to mention the use of appliances, tools, software, etc. Surely if someone can wallow through an internet search to find their way here, they can take a very few minutes to read and follow the basically simple requirements for participation. If there is a problem with some technical issue like posting pictures, then there is no shame in asking for help; and when posted pictures and links are snipped, it's usually regarding size or some sort of copyright issue, just more problems that the administrator has to deal with..... ~Cheryl [This message has been edited by dragonflywink (edited 06-15-2010).] [This message has been edited by dragonflywink (edited 06-15-2010).] IP: Logged |
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adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 06-15-2010 05:43 PM
I had thought to add to this discussion, but Dragonflywink has put my views on screen, and much more eloquently than I could have. Thanks for that. IP: Logged |
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efuerst100 Posts: 34 |
posted 06-16-2010 07:28 PM
I appreciate everybody's thoughtful responses to this thread, including those posted by the moderators and by Scott who has made this wonderful site available to all of us. By way of background, I have been recuperating from a major auto accident and have come to realize that life is indeed too short and it is important to be kind. Whether or not you agree with my point of view as expressed by the initial post in this thread, I think we probably all agree that this site is terrific and that we want other passionate silver collectors to join the site and share their knowledge and questions with us. We also probably agree that the site and its tone reflect on all of us. If it is not possible to teach new members about the guidelines offline, I would like to suggest that we assist Scott - so he doesn't always bear the burden - by warmly welcoming new members, kindly asking them to introduce themselves by telling us about their interest in silver, and gently reminding them about the guidelines and photography pointers. Over the years, many of you have helped me with such diverse topics as buffing out scratches in buffalo horn silver salad silvers and identifying the place, maker and approximate date of manufacture of my great grandparents' soup ladle. I, in turn, have helped a few members sort out some Italian hallmarks. I look forward to many more thoughtful dialogues on this site and hope that we all have the opportunity to help Scott expand and enhance the site by welcoming new members. Thank you! IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 06-18-2010 03:47 PM
Not so long ago I agreed to help moderate in continental silver - and then I stopped posting. Sorry for that but I have not had much time. So I will return. I very much agree with forum regulations. I hate when I supply knowledge - to see it benefit a lazy seller. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 06-20-2010 10:34 AM
Re: What type of Ladle? So far this morning... I have spent 20+ minuets just snipping Joe's posts. I was hoping one of you would jump in and give him some advice. Joe eventually figured out how to use the [img] tags properly. I suspect Joe is now trying to figure out how to re-size.... Does anyone else have the time to help Joe figure out how to re-size?] IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 06-22-2010 12:02 AM
It seems that all the comments above are well intended, sincere and trying to do the right thing. That they come from the relatively small core group here says a great deal. To sum up:
The suggestions from above seem to be in 2 camps let it be as is or let the bad (non-reader of the yellow BOX) poster slide and see if he/she gets into line with gentle cajoling. There does not seem to be a consensus and perhaps this means that both could coexist? Keep the box but go gentle on the miscreants… The problem then is that the core group has to step in and do the cajoling. The one person who has not given a comment is Kimo who was a great gatekeeper but I think like most of us got burned out. In fact I relied on him so that I was spared! So a couple of thoughts; Could there be a caned response that Scott or any of the regulars could use, perhaps 2 or 3 for different types of miscreants? Or how about delegating a regular for one months service to the cause so we spread the pain? You know we could have a lottery or vote on the person who made the worst post (like this one)? One last thought, when I go to my other obsessive compulsive forums (ok just one or two and no its not that! Bicycle racing/riding) it seems that there are always the core group who keep it rolling and another group that dip in and then the lurkers who only watch. What this means to me is that the people who end up being regulars share that obsession and the gate keeping is not going to stop them – the rest are only there for a short time or just to watch. So perhaps all this is not really a worry and this is a great forum that is what it is – a great place to talk about the Queen of Metals! P.S. Maybe if this discussion was posted in the yellow box and it had to be read first. . . ??? IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 06-28-2010 09:46 AM
Since 06-27-2010 01:05 AM, I (and I assume Kimo) have not commented to this new poster thinking one of you might want to greet and guide the new member. I am wondering why no one has? IP: Logged |
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1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
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