A lucky strike - SMP Silver Salon Forums

SM Publications

Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.

SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Sterling Silver Forum

Silver Salon internal search
or

How to Post Photos

REGISTER (click here)

SMP Silver Salon Forums
tline

American Sterling Silver
tline3

A lucky strike

profile | register | preferences | faq | search

SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: A lucky strike
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 08-19-2006 01:37 PM June and I were returning from Massachusetts a few weekends ago. We used the need for a pit stop to check out an antique shop. We had a fun find of a group of die stamps. The seller couldn't tell anything about where they came from. I got out my ink stamp pad and made impressions. The first is R. C. Co. Plus which is the Rogers Cutlery Company, Hartford, CT. As you can see, the die will strike the impression backwards. A mistake or is there another use? We don�t know. There are a total of 6 dies. One more is reversed. One is a textured blank die presumably for striking out something. 2 are stylized initials. One is a symbol. We don't know if these are samples/mistakes from a die maker, or from a smith or someone's die collection. We are not sure the others are even silversmiths dies. We would like to investigate some more but our schedules are too packed to do it now. We will post the others when time permits. IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 08-21-2006 10:23 AM Sometimes a mark is raised from the back. (sorry I lost the original image) The marks would come out backward if the die was stamped on a piece of paper with an inkpad, but if used to stamp a mark from behind, it would of course be correct. Does your die look like it could have been used to stamp a mark from behind? [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 08-21-2006).] [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 01-27-2007).] IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 08-21-2006 11:28 AM In looking at the small size of the die I wouldn't think it would produce good results. I would also think a "raised from the back" or "push through" would require a matching negative die. These are hand tools so I don't expect there would be matching negative dies. Could you show us the back side of that impression of the STERLING and Kerr mark? Here is the other die that will strike the impression backwards: IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 08-25-2006 04:42 PM I found a few minutes to page (very quickly) through Rainwater's listings of marks. I didn't find any of these. Maybe someone else will enjoy the hunt. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 08-25-2006 08:00 PM The first one is a very old trademark, I believe for a shoe product. Could these have been used on leather? Which would explain the reverse lettering. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 08-25-2006 09:30 PM Dale Something other than silver is possible. There is a leap of faith that they all are silver because R. C. Co. Plus which is the Rogers Cutlery Company and CENTURY STERLING would appear to be from silver/silverplate companies. Since there is nothing to say otherwise, why not a leather/shoe company for the 1,2,3 above? But that still leaves us with reverse dies for R. C. Co. Plus and CENTURY STERLING to explain. The easier explanation is that the reserve dies were a mistake. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 08-25-2006 11:24 PM Well I went back to the little box the dies came in. The bottom of the box had a slip of paper (which presumably the seller wrote) with descriptions of the dies. I took the paper out and there was this: I have intentionally whited out part of the SS number. I found the following out about Robert F Hendrickson: born: Dec 23, 1927 Died:Sep 25, 2000 06095 (Windsor, Hartford, CT) IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 08-26-2006 12:33 AM Fascinating Scott. But what does it mean? Mr Hendrickson began working there when he was 19. Had he stayed to the end, he would have been retired in the mid 80's when the company went under. Does he appear in any company records or recollections? IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 08-26-2006 12:46 AM Well, since Rogers Cutlery Co. is among the many International Silver Co. silverplate trademarks listed by Rainwater, and you found some sort of IS card with the dies, I strongly suspect that the other dies may be the marks of various other silverplate divisions run/acquired by IS Co., and that this Bob Hendrickson of Hartford was responsible for stamping trademarks on wares produced by the factory. For example, the last one you show could perhaps stand for Southington Company, one of the many obscure companies listed by Rainwater under IS Co. I didn't see anything listed that would match the CP/PC cypher, and the Herm�s/Mercury foot could be any of them. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 09-04-2006 03:34 PM Hello Scott! Don't know if this is correct or not but your list of unknown Rainwater's marks included a winged foot. Could their be a connection ( Just guessing) to the emblem (logo) of the New York Athletic Club. On their silver flatware the winged foot is on the front of their pieces. Jersey IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 09-04-2006 03:53 PM The NYAC is an interesting thought ... maybe a NYAC/SSF member will check with the NYAC about whether they ever purchased hotel plate or sterling and had it marked with their logo. I am not sure I understand what you intend by "... but your list of unknown Rainwater's marks included a winged foot.." ? IP: Logged
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 Registered: May 99	posted 09-15-2006 03:50 PM By strange coincidence I just saw the insignium of #3 on a set of porcelain tankards--it is for the Salmagundi Club in New York City, so it's not a trademark, but a customer's mark. Do you have this on silver? IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 09-15-2006 04:13 PM We just have the dies. But clearly you have identified #3 . quote: Ahead of its time the "SCNY" logo is an antique, with a modern concept of design. As David Hopper once said, "No amount of skillful invention can replace the essential element of imagination." Salmagundi Art Club History Following a tradition of over 130 years, Salmagundi Art Club continues to serve as a center for fine artists from New York and around the country - providing exhibitions of paintings, sculpture and photography, conducting art classes and painting demonstrations and art auctions throughout the year. All this is done in an atmosphere of conviviality that encourages discussions on art and other topics and leads to lasting friendships among both lay and artists members. While members are mainly residents of New York, Salmagundians are to be found throughout the United States and Canada, as well as such faraway places as London, Amsterdam and Lisbon. Originally formed as the New York Sketch Club in 1871, the Club adopted its present name a hundred years ago after Washington Irving published his potpourri of wit and wisdom called "The Salmagundi Papers." The name also serves as the club dining room's famous "Salmagundi Stew". Through the years the Club has been the singular gathering place for such great artists as Childe Hassam, William Merrit Chase, Howard Pyle, N.C. Wyeth, Charles Dana Gibson, Ogden Pleisner and many others. Honorary members have included such luminaries as Sir Winston Churchill, Buckminister Fuller, Paul Cadmus, Al Hirschfeld, Thomas Hoving and Schuyler Chapin. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 09-16-2006 10:54 AM Since we now know die #3 is for the Salmagundi Art Club and suspect the Die #1 is for the NYAC, what could die #2 be? #2 I think the letters are PLC. I believe the type face is an old one (WEV may know better). In a leap of faith I suspect the letters may stand for the PL Club. And if so then it might mean “Players League Club”. So far I haven’t been able to locate an old or new image of the “Players League Club” logo. Any of you sports fans out there able to help me with this guess? IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 11-04-2007 05:30 AM It has been a year+ since this was last at the top of the forum list... and since the World Series is over.... I felt it might be a good time to refresh this to the top of the list. IP: Logged
bascall Posts: 1629 Registered: Nov 99	posted 03-13-2009 02:24 AM Should it ever come up here's a brief identification of the maker of the medallion in this thread: Charles J Dieges and Prosper Clust 23 John Street, Brooklyn, New York, early twentieth century manufacturing jewelers (badges). IP: Logged

All times are ET	next newest topic \| next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic \| Archive/Move \| Delete Topic
	Hop to:

Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a

^1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

^2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

^3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.

| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver