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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Sterling Silver
 Gorham Aesthetic Piece?
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| Author | Topic: Gorham Aesthetic Piece? |
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chase33 Posts: 362 |
posted 09-12-2010 11:22 AM
  
I just acquired this piece and know that it is sterling and by Gorham (has LAG marks / Sterling - no other marks that I can find). What I don't know is age, pattern and usage. I couldn't find the pattern in any books I have so I am guessing it is not-full-line pattern, circa 1870-1880 but stumped on its usage. It is 10" long and the bowl is about 3 1/2" long by 3" wide and has bright cut details in the bottom. The point is very sharp. The lily-of-the -valley at the end is very well done with the flowers attached by thin wires. Any help would be greatly appreciated. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 09-12-2010 03:23 PM
for serving peas? IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-12-2010 03:36 PM
Turner shows comparable pieces on page 97: Saxon Stag, Bird, Lady, Birds Nest. Most are dated to the period 1855 to 1870. Which appears to be a guess. These items remain somewhat of a mystery. But they are really great silver. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-12-2010 04:29 PM
Charles Curb who is the wisest silverphile I have ever known puts items like this into a catagory he calls experimental. Reasoning from what we know about such items, it is a solid hypothesis that items were made up and sold even though there were not firm plans to mass produce them. We know that they exist in small numbers but not in quantities that would suggest mass production. We really can't connect them with the patterned silver that was the mainstay of 19th century manufacturers. The design and production are of very high quality. Gorham seems to have made the bulk of them, tho Schiebler, Wood & Hughs and others also left us with delightful examples. (Has anyone ever found patent papers for any of these?) They appear in silver collections without any rhyme or reason, they are family silver unrelated to the rest of the horde. Most do not have the engraving that would suggest presentation pieces, which makes them even more mysterious. All we can do is enjoy them. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-12-2010 04:46 PM
Two further points. The experimental pieces are manufactured not hand made. A prototype of a piece would be handmade to see if it is workable and then the dies etc would be made, which is a major investment. The steps necessary to produce a piece of silver are very expensive. Thus, a large number of pieces must be produced to spread out the cost. Some people have suggested that the items were made to accompany ceramic or glass items. And so were never sold thru regular silver marketing channels. It is an interesting and valid hypothesis, but not really known for sure. IP: Logged |
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chase33 Posts: 362 |
posted 09-12-2010 05:14 PM
quote: Thanks for the info everyone. But I do have one question for Dale: I'm a little confused about manufactured vs hand-made. If there are small number of these pieces does that mean they were in fact manufactured and not hand-made. Your statement that a large number of pieces must be produced to spread out the cost is sound businees and I can understand that. Thanks again for everyone's input. [This message has been edited by chase33 (edited 09-12-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-13-2010 04:20 PM
Chase says:
quote: We know about hand made versus machine made by examining the piece. From this we can then reason given by what we can find. The quandary that we face is when we have something machine produced and there are not a lot of them around, which seems contradictory. So, we need to explain how this could have happened. The simplest explanation is Charles Curb's: in the 1850's to 1870's, silver makers were beginning to explore the limits of their technology. The items we are talking about here were ones that showed what could not be done economically. The only way to learn this was to do it. So, a limited number of pieces were produced. And then the cost accountants applied their arts to the process. And concluded that this could not be a good business decision. To avoid a total loss, the silver pieces were sold to jobbers and retailers. They entered into the world of gift silver. And come to us as somewhat mysterious. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 09-13-2010 05:09 PM
I have a fondness for these thin-stemmed fancy patterns with the applied 3-dimensional elements from Gorham, as well as similar ones by Wood & Hughes, Whiting and others (especially if they have Lilies of the Valley). Most references date them to the 1860s-70s. While I've had to settle for the die-stamped No. 88/Lily (1870) pattern, have seen this one a few times before, yours is perhaps a large berry spoon but suspect it may be part of a salad set. The leaf finial is cast, with the blossoms being shaped from silver-sheet and soldered to wire stems, the similar Calla Lily pattern blossom is also formed from silver-sheet, and the Morning Glory has a cast blossom with applied wire tendrils. I've run across quite a few with an Egyptian motif and the only one I've owned was an Isis sugar spoon (not a particular favorite), and have seen quite a few different cast finials. A cursory search turned up an 1868 Wilkinson patent for a pattern he called "Mask" and I can remember seeing it years ago, with a rather solid cast face applied at the top and, if I recall correctly, leaves above the bowl. Also showing the patent for another that I've seen, "Bridal", with a pair of 3-dimensional doves at the top. Just for general information, some Gorham design patents from 04/07/1868:
D2994...Doric (unfamiliar) D2995...Italic D2996...Rush (unfamiliar) D2997...Mask D2998...Pompeian (Pompeii) D2999...Rosette From 07/14/1868 D3110...Bridal ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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chase33 Posts: 362 |
posted 09-13-2010 06:08 PM
Thanks Dale I think I understand what you meant now. And Cheryl, you must give us a tutorial on how you find so many patent numbers. I try and try but always seem to come up empty 99% of the time. Your average seems more like 99% success. Thanks again everyone Robert IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 09-15-2010 03:35 PM
It's a fascinating piece, and while different from any standard design from Gorham, it falls completely within the transitional rococo/naturalism-to-neo-grec one expects in the 1860s. The surface texturing is also very much of this moment, when whatever technology they had in the factory allowed them to do all sorts of cool stuff to silver surfaces. I suspect these "rare" forms were conceived as functional novelties, and sold individually, in boxes, as bridal gifts (or the like)...I suspect their function was vague (i.e. serving) because you could sort of use it for whatever you wanted to, as long as you could get it into the bowl and onto a plate without unseemly spilling. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 01-19-2018 03:49 PM
Finally added a demitasse spoon in this pattern to my Lily of the Valley collection, 4¾" long: ~Cheryl [This message has been edited by dragonflywink (edited 01-19-2018).] IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-21-2018 12:29 PM
Lovely, Cheryl! Do you have pieces in the Wood & Hughes 3-D lily-of-the-valley pattern too? It's similar to the point that I expect one inspired the other. I wonder which came first? I just got a W&H lily-of-the-valley cream ladle; I'll post a photo after I've polished it. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-21-2018 02:49 PM
Here's Wood & Hughes's version. See how similar the handles are? What do you think: did Gorham copy Wood & Hughes or vice versa? IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 01-21-2018 05:57 PM
That is a lovely piece, Polly - you're building a very nice little cream ladle collection! And I'm going to guess that they just both came up with similar designs in the same era... Have seen four different W&H Lily of the Valley patterns over the years, this one and another similar fancy dimensional design, and two nice die-struck patterns - have none, and covet all! ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 01-22-2018 11:32 AM
Splendid pieces!  IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-22-2018 07:54 PM
For Cheryl: IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 01-22-2018 09:45 PM
Awww, thanks Polly - it's so pretty! ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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