posted 08-15-2000 10:27 PM            

I have authenticated the hallmarks using Jackson's Hallmarks by Ian Pickford as well as using The Book of Old Silver by S.B. Wyler. However, I am having difficulty determining the Maker's Mark. It is obviously a "WS", and upon magnification, the letters appear to be set separately upon each other (see photos).

I am guessing that the maker is either William Shaw,or W.R. Smily. Does anyone have any other "guesses"?

Could anyone give me any idea regarding the value of this treasure? If so, please email me with such.

posted 08-17-2000 10:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ulysses Dietz:
Smiley seems like the best choice. There is a William Stevenson listed with a very similar mark in the late 1810s--could that firm still be around in 1856? -

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posted 08-17-2000 10:52 AM            

Thanks for your reply. According to my references (& I'm sure you know this!) the English Maker's Marks can span several years before and after the date on the piece, but I would have no idea if "several years" would translate into forty years.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge or etiquette regarding this forum, but could you ,perhaps, tell me a little bit about my silver pitcher (ewer)?

1. What is it classified as? (Pitcher,ewer, other?)
2. Are pieces which have personal messages engraved on them general more or less valuable than plain pieces?
3. Even though I obtained this piece from a legitimate source, could a decendent of the person who is named on this piece still claim
it as theirs?
4. Is the grapevine handle of French influence? Does it add value to the piece?
5. Is this piece of any special value, other than it's weight in silver (29 ounces)?
6. On the bottom of piece (see webpage), there are scratch marks which must mean something. Under magnification, I can make out an L with 2 horizontal slash marks in the middle, (presumably an English Pound sign)with other marks ("s" "h" "X"). Would this be a selling price put there by the maker? There is also a "2 y" scratched on the bottom.

I am hungry for knowledge regarding this piece, and I am unable to find any info related to it.

I have researched Lloyd's Ship Records, and have found out a lot of information regarding the "Waterloo" mentioned on the piece. I have historical data confirming the journey from Sidney to London. I am currently obtaining a photo and passenger list. But it does not list Swanson as the captain of that trip.

Please tell me what you can. I know that you can't place $$ on it, but I can have it appraised here.

Thanks.

Samuel

posted 08-17-2000 11:43 AM            

What the piece is is a matter of semantics more than anything. I suspect, given the iconography of grapes, and its narrow neck, that it was a "claret jug" or something like, rather than a water pitcher. The British usually decanted wine into pitchers or decanters before serving it.

As a curator, I love pieces with such detailed historical inscriptions. However, while there are plenty of collectors who specifically like this sort of inscribed piece, many collectors find the inscriptions a detriment rather than a benefit. As a form, yours is a typical, mid-19th century English rococo revival piece, with fine but not exceptional engraving. The cast and chased grapevine handle is a virtually universal decorative motif in this period, and no more French than English in origin. It shows up all over American silver, too, at the same time (but we are more inclined to produce water pitchers than claret jugs). The interest in rustic naturalistic motifs inspired the use of this kind of motif all through the decorative arts in the 1850s, although it probably shows up in England in the 1840s or even 1830s.

You needn't worry about descendants of Mr. Swanson. Presumably there aren't any, or it wouldn't have been sold; but even if there are, it is long out of their hands. There are no rights of repatriation for household goods that weren't actually looted!

The inscription is interesting in that they don't refer to James Banks Swanson as Captain, but rather as Esquire (i.e., a gentleman). This seems very odd to me, and makes me wonder if he wasn't a civilian who performed some special service to the passengers while on the trip (which, in 1856 must have been grueling, remember). Perhaps the passenger lists will help. Maybe it was a hellishly rough trip, and Mr. Swanson kept people's spirits up, and did something particularly kind or helpful. It is a fascinating puzzle. But I'll bet he was not the captain, or even a crew member.

I suspect the scratch marks are simply records of the piece's actual weight, perhaps done many years later when it was appraised for an estate. These marks often occur on old silver, sometimes put on when the piece is assayed, sometimes when it is weighed later on.

posted 08-17-2000 12:15 PM            

Thank you for your most wonderful reply!! Your attention to such minute details, with explanations of them, knock me over!!

I am most inspired to jumpstart my investigation of the "Waterloo" and her voyage. Your suggestion that Mr. Swanson may have been their "Molly Brown" is delightful! It certainly adds great flavor to the mystery!

Once again, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with me. And thank you for your compliment regarding my images. It's the best I could do with a digital video cam!

Warmly,