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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 A Curator's Viewpoint
 What is Museum Quality?
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| Author | Topic: What is Museum Quality? |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 03-07-2007 11:49 AM
  
I deal with collectors of every possible kind of decorative arts material, from furniture to studio glass. And always they're going on about "museums should have only the best" in their galleries and in their collections. But my personal view is that "only the best" of any kind of material doesn't tell the story fully. Our founder at The Newark Museum, John Cotton Dana, was suspicous of the "masterpiece," because he felt it was simply a way for rich people to lord it over everyone else--which kept them out of museums. Dana loved the "typical" and "everyday," because it related to people's lives. I'm somewhere in the middle, how about y'all? IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 03-07-2007 12:57 PM
It is my feeling that "only the best" is not representative of the actual trade in any period of history, unless it was one in which only the very wealthiest could afford any silver at all and used it to reflect their high standing. I have always felt that collectors who collect that way are using their collections as status symbols, and that museums that follow that course exclusively in their purchasing (or deciding which donations to retain) are doing the same. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 03-07-2007 02:00 PM
I can appreciate "the best", but I seldom feel a need to seek it out. I'm much more interested in the typical and everyday, and perhaps even more so in the really poor and desperate -- the paper-thin silver teaspoon that some relatively poor person had to have for social occasions, for example, or the cludgy re-adaptations of old pieces to new uses. Those really say something about people's lives. And I think I'd say pretty much the same in general, not just silver. A $200 restaurant meal can be a great thing, don't get me wrong, but I can enjoy a good bowl of Brunswick stew or barbecue or boiled peanuts from a roadside stand just as much. And don't get me started on the cuchifrito stands of Puerto Rico.... Oops, er, back to silver.... I'm with swarter when it comes to those who view collections as status symbols. Did anyone else see the story in the news this week about the collector who paid $500,000 for five bottles of wine, most of which turned out to be fakes? Sheer status-grubbing, cloaked in a mystique of supposed specialized understanding than only a 'true' cognoscente would appreciate. IP: Logged |
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salmoned Posts: 336 |
posted 03-07-2007 02:29 PM
Well, if the best articles aren't found in museums, how will us commoners ever get a chance to see 'um? A masterpiece or rarity in private hands is rarely as accessible as when held by a museum. As for more common articles, well why should I go to a museum to see objects much like what I already have (or could have) in my own collection? I don't need a museum to validate my own collecting. If I were ever to acquire a museum-quality piece, I should certainly offer it to a museum. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 03-07-2007 03:58 PM
The "everyday" has its place in the heritage houses which purpose it is to show life in the past for upstairs and downstairs. A museum should concentrate on the masterpieces, only the outstanding lets us sharpen our wits (and taste) for quality. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-07-2007 04:42 PM
When I see a piece of 'perfect' anything, bells go off and flashing red lights light up. A big sign with the word FAKE pops into my brain. It is the same as people not wanting anything monogramed. Give me a nice sugar bowl with a great mongram within a cartouche and I am in seventh heaven. Plus I get to save a lot of money for another great piece. Near perfect condition is a justifiable reason for those hugh prices but few of us will ever be able to afford them. A few dings here and there means to me that someone enjoyed their silver and now I get to enjoy it also. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 03-07-2007 05:59 PM
Certainly the best objects have their place in a museum, but so should the others. The collectors of silver are a small proportion of the population and may not need to see the commonplace, but the rest need to be educated about silver. Where better to do it than in a museum display? IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 03-07-2007 07:15 PM
My view seems to be contrary to the majority opinion here. I do not go to museums to see common, everyday objects that I could easily obtain myself. I think museums should seek the rare masterpieces, the most exclusive items that few could have ever afforded. By being placed in a museum, these high-end objects are dissociated from their status as "for the rich only". Their presence in a public setting renders them available to everybody, and there is no sense of the rich lording them over the rabble. For example, I will never be able to spend $20,000 on a Gorham Narragansett punch ladle, but there is one in the Boston MFA that I can go see whenever I want. Additionally, I think museums should display items and artifacts that are rare or unique by virtue of some kind of historical connection or significance, but never intended originally to be a status object (although of course now, such items are valuable on the market). For example, Native American ceremonial items. [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 03-07-2007).] IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-07-2007 10:53 PM
I am with Paul. When the commonplace object becomes so rare that it now is exalted, like a colonial strap handled kitchen sugar shaker, which by its simplicity and rarity is now extremely beautiful (as it always was), unaffordable and belongs in a museum. Like wise to go see the Adams vase or the Magnolia vase at the other end of the spectrum is a thrill too. So where does this leave the humble tea spoon... an object that I have an unending fascination with? I could see a complete survey of the history of these spoons in a museum 20-30 spoons, but a few shoeboxes of them? That is really only interesting to a collector like me and if those boxes ever were the basis for some break through of research (please this IS just a fantasy example…) then the relevant spoons could end up in a case in the museum. Some Museums are opening their collection drawers so one can see all the dogs and to the student of those objects it is like the shoebox of spoons. I think this is great but wonder if the non-interested person really cares? A last thought is that there is a ton of stuff out there and I think the tip of the ice burg, in this case, is all we want to see. IP: Logged |
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adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 03-10-2007 07:09 AM
I too think that a museum is the place to see the fine and the rare, which in private hands is usually well out of public view. Consider that the very finest of the decorative arts will often influence the every day object eventually, as stylistic concepts "trickle down". Having said that though, a thoughtful article by a museum curator (John Wade, formerly Powerhouse Museum, Sydney) explained that given a limited budget, he could buy a damaged item to illustrate a concept or technique. Many a private collector would reject the damage, but by careful display the object of the exercise could be achieved. I guess you "pays your money and you makes your choice". IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-10-2007 08:46 AM
Now for the opposing side. Yes, I too would like to see those rare and ultraexpensive pieces in a museum but. BUT, isn't there always a but. What about the majority of the population living away from the big museums. I would wager that the majority of our population will never see the inside of the New York Metropolitan or any other major facility. Those persons will see the inside of small county historical societies; the bulk of all young children are first introduced to our history by 'class trips' to such places. These 'places' will never be able to afford the likes of a Coney teapot. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 03-10-2007 08:58 AM
I know I will never get to see those really ornate status symbol pieces at any of my friends homes, so I do appreciate being able to see them at museums. Same with medieval suits of armor, there is no place else to go to see one, but having said that, Henry Ford Museum is great for having a whole village of period houses set up and furnished. Most of these were middle class but I believe the humble deserves a place next to the rare one off pieces made for the upper classes. But do we then get into whether museums are display places for the best mankind has to offer or anthropological histories? IP: Logged |
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Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 03-10-2007 01:37 PM
I encountered the classic case of snobbery and collectors disease taken to it's limits about twenty years ago when a mint boxed Leica MI came up for auction in London. Sealed in it's original packing apparently meant a vast premuim on an already high price. But if the purchaser had opened the box, it would have devalued it. So the contents might have been a brick. Wine you cannot drink, and cameras you cannot use ( or play with ! )No sense to me ! To me the words "Museum Quality" are buzz words with no meaning except that the vendor thinks his article is very good. Museums , as one contributor has pointed out, are not interested in perfect condition, only in total genuineness. A good example of whatever the article is, whether it be a plastic crisp packet or a piece of Paul Storr silver , is what a museum needs. The problem has arisen I think because so often big , important collections get left or donated to museums... and these collections tend to have the best. Hence museums tend to get high quality pieces by default, not necessarily by choice. [This message has been edited by Clive E Taylor (edited 03-10-2007).] IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 10-13-2007 10:32 AM
Can I possibly start this thread up again? I think of this always when I give lectures on the changes in home furnishings in America over the past three centuries--usually illustrated by silver and furniture. Silver in colonial America, for example, was irrelevant to 99% of the population--except in the form of coins. Likewise sofas--a form all of us live with, but which was a symbol of the highest aristocratic pretension in colonial days. A museum collection such as Winterthur gives a completely skewed picture of colonial life in America--it probably owns 90% of the sofas ever made before 1800! Different museums have different missions. Each needs to collect according to its mission. Places like the Metropolitan are somewhat hamstrung by their own mission of "only the best," because that is a standard that is (ironically) never the same as time progresses. Newark's own (sometimes a little incoherent) collecting mission--understanding the way people live, high and low, all over the world and throughout human history--has given me a collecting freedom that I could never have had in any other institution. And a lot less money to spend. It's a good trade-off! IP: Logged |
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