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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 A Curator's Viewpoint
 Talk to me, people.
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| Author | Topic: Talk to me, people. |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 12-16-2010 03:33 PM
  
Let's see if you guys can tell me what these might be. Then I'll tell you if you don't guess. I just want gut reactions. IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 12-16-2010 05:39 PM
I have no idea. That is I have one - they are American. Continental Europe does not bring such candles to light And they are after 1900. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 12-16-2010 05:43 PM
Menorah IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 12-16-2010 07:01 PM
or Majorah, in this case. . . IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 12-16-2010 08:13 PM
Candlesticks and candelabra? The silver looks like some Tiffany work I have seen. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 12-17-2010 07:59 AM
Out on a limb here - English 1770's? (Can we straighten the stick on the lower right, its leaning to the left a little?) IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 12-17-2010 09:15 AM
You guys are good. Majorah, indeed. These are part of a huge "George III" dinner service of over 200 pieces that was shown by Tiffany & Co., designed by Paulding Farnham, at the Paris Exposition Universelle in 1900. They were then shown at the Pan American Exposition in Buffalo in 1901. I have contracted to buy these, along with three matching centerpiece bowls, which were not shown in the expositions. They are being deaccessioned by an institution, and I am essentially rescuing them from auction--because they were not only made in Tiffany's Newark factory, but they were originally purchased by Newark varnish magnate Franklin Murphy--who was one of the Newark Museum's founding trustees. Weirdly, in a second issue of the Jeweler's Circular in June 1900, the same service was referred to as "Italian, 15th century," which makes no sense. "My" two candelabra were one of two pairs of large Georgianesque candelabra designed by Farnham and shown in Paris. By the way, the candelabra are 28"H. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 12-17-2010 03:16 PM
Back when time meant so little to the cost - the labor/skill in these is stunning let alone a design that knocks your socks off. Great buy! IP: Logged |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 12-18-2010 12:00 AM
Hi there, Wow.. really neat. And they are all there. I have not read past the original post, and I think they are cast and are mid 18th c. Country of origin ? not the USA as they are to fru-fru, unless they are Tiffany made for one of the large exhibitions, which may make them later in the 19th century. I would think France or the UK. I would like a higher definition photo, or a close up of one if you can do it. Thanks as always.
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 12-18-2010 12:19 AM
They remind me of the interesting English epergnes of the 1770s with the open silver baskets and lots of applied decoration. If only you had access to a good silver conservator to straighten the one stick on the right. IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 12-20-2010 04:32 PM
Oh, I have access to Ubaldo Vitali, one of the best silver conservators in the world...but that's for next year, if we have the money. Our budget allotment is being slashed by 50% by the City of Newark so I suspect that conservation may not happen next year...we'll see. IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 12-20-2010 04:35 PM
The fact that Marc saw them as European and even 18th century is very interesting. This is right at the heart of the Beaux Arts movement in America, and Paulding Farnham would have studied English and French silver. It is telling that Tiffany caught up to the great 18th-century silversmiths at the turn of the 20th century. If only Tiffany & Co. had produced art nouveau silver of a caliber of Gorham's martele--they surely had the skills! IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 12-20-2010 07:16 PM
I would love to know the politics in the company because it seems to me that Tiffany and Gorham ran neck and neck up until the Martele period and it is as though Tiffany was by then too stuffy and focused on a conservative NYC crowd. Perhaps with influence from Stanford White and so never went that route? Still how amazing to be a Moore or Farnham and knock out those designs and have the factory with all those skills in it make these appear in (my guess) about 3 months. Even more amazing that Gorham unleashed its chasers and yet created a wonderfully diverse but cohesive world of Martele! To me one of the most progressive uses of pure talent in a factory by management. I agree that Tiffany also had the raw talent in the work force and not only caught up to but surpassed 18c London smiths with some of their more ambitious projects and experiments. Please keep the "Talk to me" images coming when you have the time and your not too depressed about museum life in the 21st C. IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 12-21-2010 09:11 AM
I don't actually have possession of the silver yet--it is still at Christie's, and will get to us sometime early in the new year---I'll make sure to get photos of details and we can discuss the manufacturing techniques...even if it's only my iffy photography, since I'm not sure we can afford photography (Note: our acquisition funds are sequestered and secure, and can only be used to buy things--so even if we had to fire all the staff and shut the museum down, we'd still have money to buy things. Isn't the non-profit world peculiar?). IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 12-21-2010 08:06 PM
If only we all had sequestered acquisition funds! Thank you, it will be fun to see them in detail, until then Happy Holidays. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 12-22-2010 10:56 AM
quote: JCK - March 16, 1898
In the "gold room" of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, will soon be placed what may be said to be one of the most artistic silver sets ever produced by the hands of an American silversmith. The set which is illustrated on this page was presented to the museum on Feb. 21, but has not yet been put on exhibition to the public. The donor’s name is kept a secret, the articles being presented to the museum through Tiffany & Co., the makers. Each article in the set was wrought by hand from one piece of silver, which when hammered into form and design, was gilded and etched throughout the inside. The decoration has as its motif a study after the Chinese peony, and is done in dull colors in champlevé enamel. Each cloisonne contains from two to four different colors of enamel - red, blue, white or yellow. The set was made a few years ago and was intended solely for exhibition purposes. lt was sold by Tiffany & Co. to the party who has presented it to the museum, and it was agreed by the makers that the set was never to be duplicated. This set is an expression of all the crafts that enter into the silversmith’s art in its highest form. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 12-22-2010 02:21 PM
This thread has reminded me of a British article on an 1893 paper on "American Silverwork", read to the Society of Arts, with included comments by listening members. Fascinating stuff, with several references to Tiffany. Bit lengthy, so I'll post it separately in the Ephemera & Documentation forum. ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 12-22-2010 02:42 PM
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 12-22-2010 02:47 PM
Grim, but that's just me. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 12-31-2010 08:27 PM
What I see is two candelabra for a center of a large table and four candlesticks, one for each corner. Lovely set. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 01-05-2011 10:18 AM
Lot 95 in Sotheby's 27 Jan 2011 auction is another pair of the candelabra. I wonder how many of these were produced by Tiffany. IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 01-11-2011 07:52 AM
I saw those two candelabra in the Sotheby's sale--makes me wonder at the phenomenon that things seem to surface in groups--all this stuff from Paris 1900 by Tiffany after nothing at all for many years. The Sotheby's examples were made after 1902, and are nine-light rather than seven--but pretty much the same formula. The silver we are acquiring comes with three en-suite centerpiece bowls that were made in 1901-1902...so clearly Farnham kept making more pieces in this style, and Tiffany must have kept a major display of it in the store--I'm sure Newark's founding trustee purchased them in NY at the store...most of this stuff seems to have been sold piecemeal. Farnham kept creating the Renaissance style pieces (that match his 1905 flatware pattern)for years, too. At least during this sparkling moment of the gilded age, this stuff must have sold pretty well... IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-11-2011 10:41 AM
Is this the sort of thing people would buy for their own tables, or would it be for gifts? IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 01-11-2011 03:28 PM
Oh, both, surely. People bought their own decorations, but wedding gifts, anniversary gifts, etc. Marketing silver capitalized on all the possible reasons you might want to acquire it. IP: Logged |
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