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Unger Dies, Forms and/or Fakery

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Author	Topic: Unger Dies, Forms and/or Fakery
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 11-15-2004 11:45 AM Unger Dies, Forms and/or Fakery Did you see the �dies� being offered on eBay? I am hoping one of the SSF member silversmiths can shed so light on this. The photos weren't great nor are there any photos showing the backs. So it may be difficult to say what these are. Nevertheless, I am not so sure they are dies. If they are dies, I wonder if the seller had/has the matching pieces? As dies I believe there would be matching images in reverse. I am thinking they might be sand casting forms. On the other hand if they are really meant to deceive, then I suppose someone could have sand cast several original items of Unger silver in pot metal and brought them to market pretending the pot metal pieces are dies. Let me be clear - I am not accusing anyone of anything particularly the seller in this auction. If my suspicions might be true about the items being offered, it doesn�t mean the seller wasn�t also duped by someone. I really don�t know what is going on here and am just asking a question. If real, I hope whoever gets them will not let them be abused. I also hope it was purchased by someone (buyer�s handle = ohvcrocker) I know so I can get a first hand look. quote: 19th cent Unger Bro's, 10 Silversmith Stamping Die's RARE Unger Brother's, Art Nouveau sterling die's. Unger Brothers, of Newark, NJ, made some of the finest novelty items in the art nouveau style of any American silver maker, and known for their exceptional art nouveau designs. Auction is for 10 Unger bro's silversmith die's. They were acquired in the Atlantic Highland, New Jersey. Die's were used by the silversmith at Unger bro's to make sterling Jewelry, hair brushes, dresser & powder jar's, mirrors, etc. Eight of the 10 die's are of Art Nouveau Ladies. Measurements range are from 2" to 3 1/2" square. Made of Iron. Circa, late 1800's- turn of the century. CONDITION: all have minor surface rust, and three have corner chips. Overall, very good condition. We describe all items to the best of our ability. Please understand, we're NOT EXPERTS! Please email any questions BEFORE you bid. Please keep in mind, most of our items are over 100 years old and normal age should be expected. Photo's are considered part of the description, so please view them all. ....... IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 11-15-2004 11:13 PM Or, are they for wax casting? To make a number of negative spaces that would then be filled with wax. Which would then be assembled into larger items for working. Which seems even more implausible. Also, would iron be used for dies? Steel would seem like a better choice. Looking at these, it would seem that the stamping involved a number of operations rather than one crisp drop of the forge. It will be interesting to learn more about them. IP: Logged
middletom Posts: 467 Registered: May 2004	posted 11-16-2004 06:25 PM I notice that they are irregular in shape, and have no holes or grooves by which they might be aligned with a female die. One thought occurs that they might be used to strike the disign into thin silver with lead beneath to allow the impression to be made in the silver. However, again the problem of how one would align them on the piece of silver. Their apparent flat backs suggests they might have been struck in a foot drop as we have or a screw press. If the silver was trimmed back afterward, then proper alignment would not be so important when making the impression. IP: Logged

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