|
A GLOSSARY of MILLED BANDS
|
|
| How to Post Photos |
REGISTER (click here)
|
|
A GLOSSARY of MILLED BANDS
|
|
| How to Post Photos |
REGISTER (click here)
|
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Silver before sterling
 Coin silver's dying days
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Coin silver's dying days |
|
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 07-26-1999 09:21 PM
  
[19-0003] As my fellow moderator and I were putting together the opening post an interesting question came up. When did coin silver finally die out altogether? It is generally recognized that after the move to a sterling standard by Gorham and Tiffany in the 1850s, the use of coin silver began to fall away as manufacturers were forced to match the leaders. Its use was continued, as a second grade metal, until the late 1860s by some of the largest companies: Ted pointed out that Gorham and Wood & Hughes stopped offering it in their catalogs in 1868. On the other hand, I have a teaspoon given to me by a friend whose grandmother received it as part of her wedding service in 1898, as it is so engraved. It was made by Vanderslice of San Francisco and is in a typically grotesque Victorian design (it is the friendship alone that keeps it from the recycling bin!). I believe Vanderslice came to an end c 1908; does anyone know if they ever stopped offering coin wares? Or the sales termination dates of other companies? wev IP: Logged |
|
Ted Posts: 17 |
posted 07-27-1999 03:25 PM
As co-moderator, I would like to offer my 2 bits on the expiration of "coin silver". I think coin was made by many companies, including Gorham, not as a secondary product but as a primary product until they switched to sterling exclusively, in Gorhams case in 1868. I have never seen a Gorham piece that I knew conclusively sterling prior to 1868. I have a Gorham pattern in coin that has a patent date of 1867. Tiffany began selling coin and then sterling, made by others, early. Interestingly Ball Black & Co. sold(not made) silver that was 950/1000 beginning around 1859, and probably switched to the sterling standard around 1865. The only pieces of Gale & Willis silver I have seen were sterling and were usually dated. They were in business between 1859 & 1862. I consider this the exception not the rule. I believe Wood Hughes made coin exclusively until the late 1860's and switched around the same time as Gorham. The latest piece of coin that I have owned is a Francis Bunelle "Wolf" pattern cake knife with the date 12/25/71 monogrammed on it. Of course, I don't know when it was monogrammed. I suppose my point is that I don't think that the 1850's period of major change, but rather the late 1860's. I also don't think coin was a secondary product, but the only product. The exception may be Samuel Kirk whom I just can't figure out. Of course, I may be all wrong about this. I hope this forum can shed some light on this subject. IP: Logged |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 04-29-2010 10:28 AM
In response to Ted's post of eleven years ago, I have seen a piece of Gorham prior to 1868 that was marked sterling. It was in a sale of water pitchers that was part of the William Hill Land and Cattle Collection and it was from the 1850s. The sale was a number of years ago at either Sotheby's or Christie's. I knew that this mark was highly unusual for a Gorham piece of this period and I thought about buying it, but unfortunately I didn't have sufficient resources. If I can locate a picture I will post it. IP: Logged |
|
Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 04-29-2010 04:35 PM
What silver makers produce is governed by what their customers want. To re-enforce customer loyalty, silver makers have committments to their customers that span long periods of time. As there are noticable color differences between sterling and coin, especially under low lighting levels, I would imagine that a set from 1865 in coin would have had matching coin pieces available well into the 20th century. Silver makers have always stressed the timelessness of their product. One ad was titled: what will you give your great grandaughter for her 50th birthday and showed a woman enjoying an antique set of silver. We do know that there were major changes in the silver business in the period 1918 to 1922. Sets were simplified, Turner gives this as the Obsolete date for many patterns. My informed guess is that this is when coin silver production finally ceased. IP: Logged |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 05-22-2010 01:13 AM
I haven't been able to find the pitcher but I did find this: a 10" Gorham sterling coffee pot from 1852. Gorham sterling pieces this early are quite unusual. I will still look for the pitcher. IP: Logged |
|
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 05-22-2010 11:13 AM
An interesting piece. This would be the first year (if the engraving is to be taken at face value) the firm was in business. I believe the inscription is for John Hale and Lucy (Carpenter) Mason, married in Providence on 14 Oct 1818. He was a prominent physician, investor, and cotton merchant. I see nothing notable about the 1852 date in their lives together, though Mr. Mason would have been 60 years old that year. Such dates are tricky, of course; post datings and item replacements are not uncommon. IP: Logged |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 05-22-2010 04:01 PM
wev, I hear what your saying about engraved dates, but stylistically there is nothing about this piece that is grossly atypical of the early 1850s. Also, these marks are virtually the same as those used by Gorham & Thurber between 1850-1852. The only difference is that "Pure Coin" has been replaced with "Sterling". Could it be a replacement? Anything is possible, but I tend to doubt it because every Gorham replacement piece that I have seen is marked contemporaneous to the date of replacement. If I ever find the pitcher, and my memory serves me right, I believe that it looks 1850s as well. IP: Logged |
|
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 05-22-2010 04:15 PM
I see from the records available that Mason died in 1855, so if the identification is correct, 1852 would seem an accurate date. IP: Logged |
|
bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 03-17-2011 01:44 PM
Pilling pure coin silver milking tubes were offered at least until 1907. In 1910 they were being sold as fully nickel plated. [This message has been edited by bascall (edited 03-17-2011).] IP: Logged |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 03-18-2011 01:21 AM
I've finally located the pitcher. According to my notes the marks were: GORHAM & CO This may have been my shorthand and the marks may have been exactly as those for the coffee pot above. The auction listing dated the pitcher as being circa 1855. IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |
