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Gilbert Mystery Pattern

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Author	Topic: Gilbert Mystery Pattern
Bob Schulhof Posts: 194 Registered: Apr 99	posted 12-23-1999 10:37 PM Dear Ted: As we have discussed before I have been trying to find information on a mystery pattern (See my Post on 1850's Mystery Pattern in the Place Settings forum). Soeffing speculated that it was made by Philo Gilbert. Trefid found a remarkable piece in your ads in Cyberattic: Your description: American coin silver flat butter knife, Philo Gilbert This 7" flat butter knife is in a pattern unknown to me, but believed to be made by Philo B. Gilbert of New York. It has Gilberts early mark of 4 punches as shown on page 48 of Donald Soeffings "Silver Medallion Flatware". The pattern is slightly worn and it has several small nicks on the blade. CA 1855 This is the first time I have seen this pattern with a true makers mark. All the others had only a retailers mark. Do you believe this piece definitely proves that the pattern was made by Gilbert? IP: Logged
Ted Posts: 17 Registered: Jun 99	posted 12-24-1999 11:04 AM Bob, I do believe this pattern was made by Philo. Of course, we don't know the name and the truth is, we really have no absolute proof. That being said, I'm confortable with the attribution. This piece, with the marks, certainly helps. Ted IP: Logged
Trefid Posts: 96 Registered: Nov 99	posted 01-20-2000 11:13 PM Just acquired a dessert spoon in this pattern with retailer's marks of "S. Hoyt & Co. 266 Pearl St." incuse in 2 rectangles. What are some of the other retailers associated with this pattern? Also, could we give it a tentative name so we don't have to call it the "mystery pattern"? IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 01-20-2000 11:31 PM I have a large sugar or berry spoon marked incised by J. Cook, who apparently bought Gilbert's dies. Also a mustard or condiment ladel marked incuse by Moses D. Barnes of Macon, Georgia and a teaspoon unmarked, but from an old New York estate. IP: Logged
Bob Schulhof Posts: 194 Registered: Apr 99	posted 01-20-2000 11:43 PM It was very widely distributed, the retailers that I have found vary from "Jaccard St. Louis" to A. Voorhees in New Jersey, Hoard & Avery in Chicago, M.W. Galt & Bros. Wash. D.C. All these are listed in Kovels Silver Marks, without reference to whether they were retailers or makers. Galt is referred to in Rainwater as a manufacturer, as is Jaccard. If anyone can propose a name I am game. I think we should get all the postings together of un name 1850's patterns and number them. We can call this SMPUB number 1. IP: Logged
Ted Posts: 17 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-21-2000 10:56 AM Y'all come up with a name. It's very different from most patterns. I'm not that clever. Ted IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 01-21-2000 11:08 AM If one of you would lend us a piece with the Gilbert maker's mark for us (SMP)to photograph, we will give it an offical Book Of Silver SIN Number and include it in the next update. As it regards a name we leave that up to the majority of you to agree on something. IP: Logged
Ted Posts: 17 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-21-2000 11:34 AM Scott, How about the one at the top of the page? Ted IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 01-21-2000 11:42 PM Great! Is it yours or Bob's? After the first we will be ready to schedule borrowing it to photograph. Thanks so very much. IP: Logged
Ted Posts: 17 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-22-2000 09:45 AM Bob knows owner. Ted IP: Logged
Ted Posts: 17 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-22-2000 09:55 AM I apologize. I was wrong. I sold it in November and I am not sure to whom I sold it. If I can track it down, I will let you know. Ted IP: Logged
bjb unregistered	posted 03-06-2000 01:05 PM A while back, perhaps a year ago, I began calling this pattern "Queen of the Sea." It's cornball, but the shell at the end of the handle does give the effect of being a crown, and the pattern does look feminine. IP: Logged
Bob Schulhof Posts: 194 Registered: Apr 99	posted 04-13-2000 11:59 PM Latest from ebay. The following set of six luncheon forks and knives appeared on ebay this week. The owner describes the link between Cook and Gilbert thusly "About J. Cook: John Cook was the foreman for William Gale & son until 1855. He then entered into partnership with Theodore Evans who had been a salesman for the same firm, together forming Theodore Evans And Co. Evans retired in 1868 at which point Cook went into business on his own. He bought the bankrupt business of Philo B. Gilbert and used their dies to make his patterns. He was in business until 1880 when George Shiebler acquired the rights to Cook's mark. This flatware probably dates from between 1868 to 1880." The owner does not have a close up scan of the marks but reports that the knife reads J. COOK; the fork reads, "J.C. N.Y." followed by "J. COOK" Another piece to the puzzle. IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 04-14-2000 02:25 PM A fine looking set, Bob. I wish you luck getting them. I managed to get some fair scans of the condiment ladle in this pattern marked by Moses D. Barnes of Macon GA. He is noted as working there as a watchmaker, silversmith and general merchant in 1840. He sold a little bit of everything apparently, including "finest gold dental foil" and silver teeth. His wife petitioned for the distribution of his estate in 1858, which is presumed to be the year of his death. The ladle has no other markings aside from the Barnes, though I suppose we must assume it originated with Gilbert. Do you suppose he employed travelling salesmen to carry his lines to outlying retailers? IP: Logged
Brad Posts: 1 Registered: Oct 2000	posted 10-20-2000 12:40 AM I have pieces marked S.P. Squire (1835) NYC and Squire & Bros. (1845-55) ref. Kovel IP: Logged

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