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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Silver before sterling
 Dating a spoon by shape
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| Author | Topic: Dating a spoon by shape |
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Barbara unregistered |
posted 08-12-2000 05:26 PM
 
I have a spoon whose shape characteristics are confusing me. Perhaps you-all can tell me around what year it was made? The characteristics are: A drop, no fins, fiddle handle, end of handle turning up, and a shell, of the sort you would find on the usual fiddle-shell spoon. What do you think? IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 08-13-2000 04:37 PM
This is a subject of interest to me, and I know it is to wev as well. He probably would have the best idea, but I guess I will take the first stab at it. It would help to know the maker and location, though. Provided the spoon is American, I would guess it to date from the 1820's. The "Finless Fiddle" style seems to have arisen in the 00's, sharing use with the Coffin-end and the oval end. The other styles seemed to drop out in the early 10's, leaving the finless fiddle and the new fiddle with fins. As time went on, the handle tips again began to tip forward, most likely in the late 10's. Finally, shells, (as well as the King's pattern, see thread below), began to appear on flatware in the 1820's. As such, I would place your spoon in the 1820's. Lack of fins does NOT automatically mean that a spoon is pre-1820. Some makers seem to have preffered the finless style (I do too, actually), and continued to make finless fiddles after 1820. Anthony Rasch is one such maker. I have a Chaudron's & Rasch Fiddle WITH Fins, which if we believe the history must date from around 1810. I also have two Rasch fiddles without fins, which from the bowl size appear to be much later. In other words, there are no hard and fast rules in coin silver, only probabilities. I will be interested to hear wev's thoughts. IP: Logged |
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Barbara unregistered |
posted 08-23-2000 07:56 AM
Brent, thank you for the good answer. As for the maker: The mark is "Parisen," and von Khrum lists, in the New York City directories for the following dates: Otto W. Parisen (Parisien) 1819-28 "Jeweler" Philip Parisen 1812-20 "Jeweler" Otto Parisien (Parisen) 1787-97 "Gold and silversmith" (The first directory appeared in 1786, so it is reasonably likely that he was working before 1787.) Otto Parisien & Son 1789-90 "Silversmiths." From the details given in von Khrum, I conclude that the "Son" was Philip. Thank you again. IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 08-27-2000 05:20 PM
I have also seen a finless fiddle with the large Parisen mark in script. I believe this mark was Otto W's mark. Otto Paul de Peris(i)en used an OPDP mark. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 10-23-2008 06:33 AM
Otho Parisien a silversmith who was French protestant was naturalized in New York City on 18 January 1763. Otto Parisien a silversmith was made a freeman of New York City on 31 January 1769. If my french translation is correct, Phillip Parisien son of Otho Daniel Parisien and Hester Sicard was baptised on 8 April 1761 which would probably mean he was born very near that date. [This message has been edited by bascall (edited 10-23-2008).] IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 10-23-2008 10:00 AM
To facilitate others in their attempt to answer I would suggest the following. Use photos whenever possible and different angles if the item warrants them. Verbal descriptions are generally interpreted by others according to their own concepts of what they have seen or not seen. I always go back to a story I heard while in the U.S. Navy (after steamships came along). A little old lady walking by a group of sailors stops them to ask, "My grandson is in the Navy and his name is Bobby, do you know where I could find him?". Plus I would just like to see your spoon. Hope this helps. IP: Logged |
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