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American Silver before sterling spoons on eBay
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Author | Topic: spoons on eBay |
akgdc Posts: 289 |
posted 06-17-2002 01:35 PM
Just curious what all you American silver experts think of these unusual spoons that sold on eBay over the weekend (882813961): quote: My first assumption was that they were Dutch. But the decoration on them looks uncannily similar to that on a spoon and fork by John Coney, c. 1700, in Fales's Early American Silver, fig. 54. No, I didn't bid on them, by the way. IP: Logged |
FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 06-17-2002 05:32 PM
These are wonderful spoons. I do not recognize the mark as that of any of the known marks for Boelen. The crossbar on the H does not extend behond the H in your spoons. My guess is that they are Dutch or fine forgeries of Boelen's work. I would love to own an example as fine as these. IP: Logged |
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 06-17-2002 08:00 PM
I also saw these on ebay and my first and continuing impression is that they don't ring true. As Fred points out, the mark is sort of Boelen, but not a match. More to the point, the mark varies considerably from one to the other and the differences don't appear to be the result of wear or a mis-strike. And the overall design seems cobbled together from design details spanning the decades from 1690 to 1730. The bowls seem too small, not in scale to the handles or the size and weight of the drops (which seem remarkably well preserved for their high profile). Their shape and proportions certainly seem of a later generation. And I find the "late 17th century provincial maker" a somewhat dubious explanation for the style of drop (which is really quite sophisticated) and the lack of rattail, as did the seller apparently. The engraving, whatever the source, does look like quality work, cut with assurance and nicely fitted to the available space. All in all, attractive, but not very well thought out imitations. IP: Logged |
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 06-18-2002 10:46 AM
Now I know I have seen this set on eBay before, offered by the same seller. It was several months ago, and I am pretty certain the set sold back then. Which means the seller either started out with twelve or more of the spoons, or they were returned. I do not think they are legitimate either. IP: Logged |
akgdc Posts: 289 |
posted 06-18-2002 01:36 PM
Interesting opinions. Strangest of all is what WEV points out, that the marks vary from one spoon to another. I do think the seller presented them honestly, however. IP: Logged |
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 06-18-2002 03:42 PM
X-Ray Fluorescence Analysis could reveal whether these are as old as represented. Here is the X-Ray Fluorescence Analysis page from our publication, The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects : IP: Logged |
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 06-19-2002 11:53 AM
If my memory is correct, and these spoons did sell once before, then my guess is the buyer found them to be unsatisfactory in some way, and now the seller is trying to sell them again. Perhaps the repair was not noticed the first time around. I agree they are NOT being presented dishonestly. (Sorry--I had originally posted this and forgot the word "not"!!) [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 06-19-2002).] IP: Logged |
akgdc Posts: 289 |
posted 06-19-2002 12:23 PM
I know this seller and he is an honest, knowledgable fellow who sells a lot of good silver at fair prices on eBay, and always tells as much as he knows in the listings. I haven't asked him about these spoons, but will do so and find out whether they sold before. I really don't know how you can accuse him of dishonesty. His description and photos are exhaustively complete (he even tells where he bought them, which few dealers ever would -- especially since their origin in England makes it less likely they'd be American), and finally he admits that he is not enough of an expert to guarantee their age or origins. He started the bidding at a low price with no reserve and let the market decide. IP: Logged |
FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 06-19-2002 07:14 PM
I don't believe there is an attempt of deception... I personaly would love to own one of these spoons to add to my collection even if it is a forgery. The engraving is spectacular and they appear to be well made. I think the listing is fairly honestly stated and I would be interested to see what the market place thinks of them. I look at things from the eye of a craftsman. IP: Logged |
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