a brief hello and a question on a hallmark

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a brief hello and a question on a hallmark

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Author	Topic: a brief hello and a question on a hallmark
kristinnicholemunro Posts: 4 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 10-20-2004 09:07 AM First off I would like to say what a great community this is! The people here seem very polite and knowledgeable. I just wanted to say "hi" to everyone! (: -- Now to the order of business: I am an archaeology student at SUNY Brockport college as well as working in the lab there. I was given a slip of paper with a hallmark drawn on and a note saying that it was silver coin spoon handle. So at first I spent a few hours online searching websites for example: silvercollecting.com and 925-1000.com However the mark was not listed. I also took two books out of the library: Dorthy Rainwaters 5th edition of Encyclopedia of American Silver Manufacturers as well as Kovel's American Silver Marks (1989 version I believe). I have never had to look up a silver hallmark and at first I was just doing a search on "silver makers marks" not knowing they were called "hallmarks" instead. (I am used to finding/identifying ceramic makers marks or panel bottle manufacturers.) So now I am lost and I do not know where to search next. I'll just say it was an eagle-H- star. The spoon was found on a site in the Finger Lakes Region of NY. The occupation of the site was 1850's to about 1910, when the farm was abandoned (though the date could be earlier). Can anyone give me any information on it? A guide book, website or manufacturers name is good enough (I quite enjoy looking things up Thank you all for your time in advance, and I apologize if there has been any similar posts. Have a great day everybody! Kristin IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 10-20-2004 01:40 PM Your mark of "eagle - H - star" is not a hallmark, but the trademark of a "manufacturing silversmith" (a commercial supplier of coin silver flatware), probably of the 1840's or 50's New York region. Many of these are anonymous have not yet been traced. Usually these marks are accompanied by the name of a retailer. Not much help, I am afraid. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 10-20-2004).] IP: Logged
kristinnicholemunro Posts: 4 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 10-21-2004 09:02 PM quote: Originally posted by swarter: Not much help, I am afraid. That's more then what I was going on, so it actually was helpful. I'll see if I can pull the spoon out of storage and get a better look for myself. Thanks for your reply. I'll post again if I find out more information. Kristin ------------------ what is an archaeologist? you may ask, well the answer is that we are the ones that dig through dead peoples trash IP: Logged
kristinnicholemunro Posts: 4 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 10-25-2004 09:48 AM Could you explain the difference between hallmark and trademark? I don't know if I'm missing something but I can't figure out the difference here. Are there any sites you can direct me to? Thanks again! IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 10-25-2004 11:18 AM quote: From the Glossary in The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects : Hallmark. Marks placed under governmental regulations to guarantee certain standards and provide certain information (location payment of duty, etc). The term derives from the former practice of guild regulation when standard marks were applied in guildhalls. In the United States, where there is no government assaying the term is often incorrectly used to describe makers marks and/or pseudohallmarks. Maker�s mark. A mark identifying the maker or manufacturer. Standard hallmark. A governmental mark which acts as a guarantee of the quality of the metal. In the case of English silver, it is a lion passant for sterling silver (.925) and a lion head erased for Britannia silver (.9584). Trademark. A logo or symbol which identifies a particular maker, manufacturer, or manufacturer�s product. United States silver marks. In the U.S. there has never been any governmental assaying of precious metals, with the exception of the Baltimore Hallmarking system in use from 1814-1830. Consumers have had to rely on the integrity of the maker or manufacturer by accepting the makers� marks as a guarantee of standard and quality. The above is a bit simplistic.... so please, everyone is invited to expand on the above. IP: Logged
Trefid Posts: 96 Registered: Nov 99	posted 11-06-2004 06:47 PM If the mark referred to looks like: an eagle whose surrounding cartouche is the eagle's outline, an H surrounded by a circle, and the "star" really a 6-pointed "snowflake" outlined as the eagle is, I believe it is the manufacturing mark of Charles F. Hill of Oswego, NY, ca. 1850. I have a "HONEYSUCKLE" master butter knife with this mark. Offhand, I can't remember how I found out about this mark, but I'll have a dig-through in my reference sources. IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 11-06-2004 06:59 PM That mark, including an incised C. F. HILL, is shown in Darling. Hill was working in Canadaigua NY c 1845 and Hartford CT c 1850. Belden also shows the incised mark and notes the star/H/eagle of Darling. The listing is, I believe, in error, as they have combined Charles F Hill of the 1840s/1850s with the jeweler Charles Hill working in Canandaigua c 1815. They may have been related (father/son?), but I think it very unlikely they were the same person. As to the marks, it is intesting to note the similar to the star/S/eagle psuedo mark attributed to Joseph Seymour, which is also found with a variety of retailer names. A rival wholesaler, perhaps? [This message has been edited by wev (edited 11-06-2004).] IP: Logged
kristinnicholemunro Posts: 4 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 12-10-2004 11:47 AM Sorry I haven't been around the forum but the last month of school is an extremely hectic time for me. Thanks again for your responses. My continous searching through refrence books had led me nowhere. A web search brings up nothing on Charles F. Hill of NY related to hallmarks/trademarks, so I need a starting point. I was wondering what Darling and Belden are. Are they authors names? If so can I get cites for them? [This message has been edited by kristinnicholemunro (edited 12-10-2004).] IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 12-10-2004 11:56 AM Darling = New York State Silversmiths; The Darling Foundation, 1964 Belden = Marks of American Silversmiths; Louise Conway Belden, Winterthur Libray, 1980 [This message has been edited by wev (edited 12-10-2004).] IP: Logged
FredZ Posts: 1070 Registered: Jun 99	posted 12-10-2004 04:35 PM My recall brings to mind an article written by Albert D. Soeffing about Hill in Silver Magazine several years ago when every issue seemed to have a new gem by this author. I had just acquired a set of teaspoons by Hill weeks earlier and I was pleased to be able to attach a maker to them. I will see if I can find the article and post the date and issue. Fred IP: Logged

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