posted 12-07-2004 02:13 PM            

I seem to have missed any specific list that designates silver from Southern States.

posted 12-07-2004 05:49 PM            

Generally, anything south of Pennsylvania and Ohio should qualify (Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky down to the gulf of Mexico - the "Old South," synonymous with the Confederacy) although some dealers try to stretch the definitions.

posted 12-09-2004 10:54 PM            

Of course, the idea that antebellum Southern silverware was all looted is much more romantic -- just like the idea that most 18th-century French silver was melted in the Revolution (whereas I'd suggest that a big factor in its disappearance was its purer, softer alloy, which caused it to wear out faster and damage more easily than English sterling).

posted 12-15-2004 01:17 PM            

Now back to you people trying to fight the Civil War over again (or for the Southern side of my family) “The War Between The States”. The war is over, and nobody won, certainly not the South. I remember visiting my best Southern client about 20 years ago, and made a reference to the last War. I was talking about Vietnam, but he naturally presumed I was referring to the late unpleasantly between the States.

My family owned slaves, but having read my Great-great-grandfather’s letters sometimes it didn’t work out all that well for the owners either. Slavery was dead wrong, but one of the most “Northern” of my family at that time was one of the biggest bigots. One General in the family was in the Northern army, but relieved from duty for supposed Southern sympathies. I would give him credit for staying relatively neutral if he later didn’t go out West and slaughter Indians (excuse me “Native Americans”).

As for the looting of silver, who knows how common it was, both sides can find arguments for and against. One Southern friend called the poor mouthing “broken down Southern Aristocracy” and used to say “if everyone who said they lost their plantation during the war really had one, we would have been more populous than the North, and would have won.”

The thing I find most interesting about Southern silver is that there was so much of it. Not too long ago people said that there was no silver made in the South, and all of it was really just sold down there. In fact we have found out that every state had their own craftsmen. And in the last 50 or so years, people proud of their heritage have dug through the records that are left, and the drawers of families (in all parts of the country), and resurrected a surprisingly amount of information. While sometimes these stories, like the 12 julep cups, show that looting existed, others are connected with gallantry on both sides. I have one piece that was saved from Sherman’s troops in Columbia, by a group of nuns. Another piece was hidden in Uncle Charlie’s swaddling clothes, but those people really did have a plantation, and eventually the platter ended up on display there.

Over the years I have purchased as much Southern silver as anyone in the business. I guess I could sit down and try and figure out whether I bought more from Northern or Southern families (presuming their was no mixing). But the truth is most of the silver, I have had, was purchased at house sales, auctions, and shops where they were practically discarded by unknowing unconcerned families. Or some mercenary dealer “ripped off” an unsuspecting owner. Often that means the story is lost forever. Only occasionally can you trace a piece back to the original family, and get the all important provenance. I am sorry to say if we are looking for the “looters”, “them” is “us”.

posted 12-16-2004 09:15 AM            

But isn't it kind of ironic that Southern society was one whose whole culture and economy were based, in the first place, on large-scale theft? (But not of silver julep cups -- just of human beings.)

posted 12-16-2004 11:13 PM            

I suppose the evil Yankee looter was traveling with his pocket-sized copy of Ensko?

posted 04-13-2005 05:31 PM            

Evidently, such looting was policy on the part of both British and Union troops during their respective occupations of Charleston. ". . . harsh interrogations [were] carried out by British officers, who demanded that plantation owners and workers reveal the whereabouts of family plate . . . enemy soldiers evacuating the city took with them between 300 and 600 rice barrels filled with estate and ecclesiastical silver . . . assessments taken after the war reported the estimaed value of looted silver at L300,000 Sterling, equalling several million dollars in today's market."

According to a Union officer's leter published after the Civil War, "The terms of plunder are as follows: The valuables procured are estimated by companies. Each company is required to exhibit the results of its operations . . . one fifth and first choice falls to the commander-in-chief and staff, one fifth to corps commanders and staff, one fifth to field officers, two fifths to the company. Officers are not allowed to join in these expeditions unless disguised as privates."

posted 04-13-2005 05:54 PM            

Stuart's comment about scarcity is interesting. I have often wondered if the relative abundance of inexpensive Russian silver from the late 19th century has to do with the scarcity created by the revolution and the horrors that followed, causing many to sell off the family silver.

posted 05-16-2005 07:52 PM            

Minnie J Ward, B 1878 D1961
"Nanny (her Grand Mother) told me that the Capt. John Cornelius, CSA came home and collected the silverware to be melted into bars for transport to England by way of the Black Warrier (River)and Blockade Runner."

I have no evidence except Miss Minnie's Word, but she was considered as honest as the day is long...

I would put forth that many Family's contributed to the cause...

"Smaug"