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American Silver before sterling Salem church sells historical silver
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Author | Topic: Salem church sells historical silver |
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 12-19-2006 12:40 PM
quote: IP: Logged |
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 12-19-2006 01:16 PM
Another such sale was discussed here earlier. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 12-19-2006).] IP: Logged |
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 12-19-2006 09:40 PM
It bothers me to see an institution sell off its history. It also bothers me when what is sold off commands such big $ that it ends up in a private collection and may never be seen again. I propose a new concept. I don't know what to call this concept, perhaps "shared stewardship" ... or maybe you have a better concept or concept name. Most of us get great joy when we have the opportunity to handle and possess historic silver. As these silver items/artifacts become more scarce and prohibitively too expensive the opportunity to get up close and personal by serious historians/collectors of silver becomes even rarer. I propose a new type of auction. Where the institution/owner puts up for auction the limited possession of (not ownership) of the item. Say for example fifty 3 month possession shares. As some of you know, I have a broken hand and have to hunt & peck for a few more weeks. In my mind, I have broadly worked out a bunch of the issues associated with this concept but getting those thoughts into this thread is difficult until my cast comes off. I know there are problems....in fact there are many... but each (in my mind) has a reasonable solution. If you like this broad concept please suggest how it can be best worked out. IP: Logged |
adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 12-20-2006 12:00 AM
Firstly Scott - I'm sorry to hear about the broken paw. As far as silver goes (speaking from outside the country), one way to handle it could be as follows: the items are sold (or rented?) on a "time share" basis, whereby they are held (and displayed) at a suitable institution. The institution then displays on the placard/label with the object, that the credit for its appearance belongs to "whoever". It offers the institution the use of the object, the "owner" the kudos associated with the object and the place of display (and maybe a tax allowance somewhere?), any insurance/security would be under institutional cover, and the church would have income in some form. Although I'm out of my depth with this, it may require some sort of philanthropic trust perhaps in which ownership would be vested. I can just imagine the worry lines appearing on the foreheads of curators already... [This message has been edited by adelapt (edited 12-20-2006).] IP: Logged |
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 12-20-2006 09:47 AM
There is already a precedent in this country of more than one museum sharing ownership of an object. However, it never really works as well as it might, because curators (and museums) are all control freaks and hate not to totally control anything they care about. As to churches selling silver: as a senior church warden myself, at a church whose good old silver was all stolen in 1980 (remember the Hunt brothers, bless 'em) I realize that valuable silver is meaningless to a church that has other more important missions to fulfill. Of course, if MY church owned all that silver, I'd make sure it went into an endowment to take care of the church--but that's perhaps behind what Salem is doing. I just hope they don't blow it all and then have nothing for the future. IP: Logged |
IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 12-20-2006 10:10 AM
Funny, just several nights ago, my father (who lives in Salem) called me to let me know about this sale, which he'd read about in the local paper. I had wanted to post something about it, but I was unable to find any pertinent information on the web via Google search. Thanks, Scott, for finding the article! IP: Logged |
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 12-20-2006 10:29 AM
adelapt, There are institutions which would embrace your exhibition element but most institution’s bureaucracies move too slowly. So for the majority to be good/willing participants/partners before the auction could prove difficult. After the auction, I could see it happening. I expect the “reserve” (50 x minimum $ pre share) would have to include insurance and administration by the true owner (or a “philanthropic trust”). I like the idea of a “philanthropic trust” to administer this for any qualifying institution but starting a “philanthropic trust” seems like an equally large and complex subject. I do believe there will be many opportunities (depending on local/national laws) for tax advantages. I expect some individuals who win a share will do as you suggest. I also expect there will be institutions seeking shares for comparative exhibition/study. My paw is really slowing me down, so I will stop here even thought I have more..... I find out tomorrow how much longer I have to have a cast. IP: Logged |
ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 12-22-2006 10:30 AM
Time share ownership works for vacation homes and I have no reason to doubt that it could work for church silver. All it takes is enough interested people with the will to determine the details of ownership. One unlikely shared ownership relationship is shown in the picture below. I am not sure where the cows came from, but about six or so couples own them on a time share basis. They move around our neighborhood about every two months and their attire changes with the season.
It appears to me that the current owners of the Salem church silver have made a good decision. While the past is certainly important the here and now, as Joseph Campbell used to say must be attended to. Happy Holidays to all. IP: Logged |
doc Posts: 728 |
posted 12-22-2006 11:21 AM
This topic really intrigues me. By trade, I am a real estate attorney who has worked with timeshares. I was also thinking of the concept of syndication, which is frequently used in the ownership of racehorses. I have also heard of a group of women who pooled their resources and bought a diamond necklace, and they take weekly turns wearing it. Having just closed a large deal this morning, I now have time to give this some thought over the holidays, but I think there is something here. I am going to give some thought as to whether there could be some tax credit that might be applicable, which would make the "interval" ownership concept even more attractive to some folks. IP: Logged |
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